Prince of Monaco

[dilanesp]

Looked really good winning the Best Pal for Baffert yesterday. Got both speed and stamina in his pedigree. Could be a good one.

YouTube

[Sysonby]

I think he's going to be primarily a sprinter in the long run. Would like to see how Muth does going forward. He was on that rediculous pace and stuck around for 2nd so could be quite good.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Sysonby

Would like to see how Muth does going forward. He was on that rediculous pace and stuck around for 2nd so could be quite good.

Agreed.

IMO, it also wasn't a surface that was especially kind to high speed.

I also thought the outside paths were better than inside.

Between putting away another quality speed horse and racing on a surface not especially kind to running that fast early, IMO, the gap between Muth and Prince of Monaco is a lot less than it appears.

Typically these really fast high quality Baffert horses put away the other speeds and take some of the starch out of everyone chasing them and trying to get into the race, but this one had another Baffert monster coming at him late.

IMO, getting used hard inside was especially bad. No that Tranche belongs with the top 2, but a drop in class and a surface more conducive to his style could get him back into the winner's circle. He's very fast.

[dilanesp]

He won the Del Mar Futurity today, though it wasn't the tour de force performance the Best Pal was.

[ClockersCorner]

Not quite as impressive as Tamara.

[GMB@BP]

Didnt look all that great to me, maybe the other horse really improved but given he will be about 7/5 its a must bet race now.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Didnt look all that great to me, maybe the other horse really improved but given he will be about 7/5 its a must bet race now.

7:5 in the BC Juvenile? On what planet?

[classhandicapper]

Both TimeformUS and TG have Prince of Monaco slower than the Beyer 103 on 8/13 and so far TimeformUS has him a hair faster than the Beyer 87 on 9/10. I haven't see the TG figure for 9/10 yet.

To me, that makes a little more sense than the Beyer figures. For one, it wouldn't be unusual for POM to take small step back off his good setup performance on 8/13, but according to Beyer it was a huge step back. That makes less sense. The TimeformUS figures also make Raging Torrent look a little more consistent (he was also in both races). Hard to know for sure.

God forbid I check Ragozin and get a completely different opinion.

I can take a look at how Beyer and TFUS handled the day, but good luck forming a strong opinion on how well he ran in each race using speed figures as the starting point.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Both TimeformUS and TG have Prince of Monaco slower than the Beyer 103 on 8/13 and so far TimeformUS has him a hair faster than the Beyer 87 on 9/10. I haven't see the TG figure for 9/10 yet.

To me, that makes a little more sense than the Beyer figures. For one, it wouldn't be unusual for POM to take small step back off his good setup performance on 8/13, but according to Beyer it was a huge step back. That makes less sense. The TimeformUS figures also make Raging Torrent look a little more consistent (he was also in both races). Hard to know for sure.

God forbid I check Ragozin and get a completely different opinion.

I can take a look at how Beyer and TFUS handled the day, but good luck forming a strong opinion on how well he ran in each race using speed figures as the starting point.

Just go with TimeformUS, you'll be fine.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

Just go with TimeformUS, you'll be fine.

Before you were a superstar figure maker in the industry, I paid you privately for your work. That's a big vote of confidence from a cheapskate like me that is always complaining about figures.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Both TimeformUS and TG have Prince of Monaco slower than the Beyer 103 on 8/13 and so far TimeformUS has him a hair faster than the Beyer 87 on 9/10. I haven't see the TG figure for 9/10 yet.

To me, that makes a little more sense than the Beyer figures. For one, it wouldn't be unusual for POM to take small step back off his good setup performance on 8/13, but according to Beyer it was a huge step back. That makes less sense. The TimeformUS figures also make Raging Torrent look a little more consistent (he was also in both races). Hard to know for sure.

On form lines he clearly took a step back unless you think Mirahmadi is on the upswing.

But Mirahmadi is an overhyped maiden who was trading blows with many of the also-rans in both the Best Pal & the Futurity itself. He did himself no favors running second as he is sure to continue to be a maiden if Baffert decides to keep him in stakes company after this.

Raging Torrent was beaten 9+ lengths in the Best Pal but was beaten 6 in the Futurity. He had spanked Mirahmadi previously. However, Mirahmadi didn't really make any great strides over Next Level, Rothschild, or Mary's Boy Bolt, all of whom he had previously beaten in his multiple maiden losses.

Furthermore, on a national level, Next Level placed behind Mission Beach in a maiden race, the latter coming back to get beat 5 lengths in the Hopeful.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by the little guy

7:5 in the BC Juvenile? On what planet?

what price do you think he will be off those 3 running lines?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

what price do you think he will be off those 3 running lines?

Pretty obviously that depends on what we see in the next major preps, notably the Breeders' Futurity and the Champagne, but also the race that used to be the Norfolk. There were three fast maiden winners the last ten days of Saratoga. Maybe one or two of the fast horses going into the Hopeful, particularly Timberland, will bounce back. Hard to see Prince of Monaco favored, especially going long, but why even worry about it now?

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Pretty obviously that depends on what we see in the next major preps, notably the Breeders' Futurity and the Champagne, but also the race that used to be the Norfolk. There were three fast maiden winners the last ten days of Saratoga. Maybe one or two of the fast horses going into the Hopeful, particularly Timberland, will bounce back. Hard to see Prince of Monaco favored, especially going long, but why even worry about it now?

was just curious, but sure...what can i say, get excited about bad favourites!

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

was just curious, but sure...what can i say, get excited about bad favourites!

Especially ones two months away, where you not only don't know who's running, or what their pps will look like?