Both Saffie Joseph starters at the just opened ChurchillDowns meet collapsed and died

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[$w1fT]

What are the chances that (once again) this gets swept under the rug?

[Robert Fischer]

are they confirmed to be both heart attacks without an injury?

[Michael]

I blame the owners.

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

are they confirmed to be both heart attacks without an injury?

Both collapsed on track after the race no injury during race

[Inner Dirt]

Do they ever do necropsies on race horses done by 100% unconnected parties? I wonder if certain drugs over time can damage a horse's heart, liver and kidneys like a human?

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by $w1fT

Both collapsed on track after the race no injury during race

wow. Seems unlikely for both to happen randomly.

Twitter is going bananas about it. Seem to only see the tip of the iceberg.

[metro]

Not a good start for CD, these two and Take Charge Briana on the turf today. This just days before the sports’ Super Bowl of racing.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Do they ever do necropsies on race horses done by 100% unconnected parties? I wonder if certain drugs over time can damage a horse's heart, liver and kidneys like a human?

I would venture to say that there's no question that drugs can damage a horse's heart. When Baffert had that infamous stretch of 7 horses that dropped dead (from heart attacks) in a 16 month period, he said that he gave the horses a thyroid drug (Thyro-L). The chances of 7 young horses dropping dead like that are extremely low unless drugs are involved.

These two deaths for horses trained by high-percentage trainer Joe Saffie are concerning, IMO, especially since they were both owned by Ken Ramsey, who was caught cheating (he bribed someone to scratch their horse so his horse could get into a race).

[Boomer]

This will not end well for for Saffie or the industry.


At Monticello raceway many years back, 2 horses died conditioned by the same trainer. Both died the same day after racing. It turns out another trainer ( not the horses trainer) snuck into the barn and shot the 2 horses up to actually run faster. They both won and the trainer who shot them up made a score by betting them to win.


I will not mention the trainer here but he never trained again. I also don't believe the matter was made public as this one has.


Maybe this will be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. Remains to be seen as how it gets handles from here.


Im am already wondering if these horses have quickly and quietly been cremated

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Do they ever do necropsies on race horses done by 100% unconnected parties? I wonder if certain drugs over time can damage a horse's heart, liver and kidneys like a human?

Yes, quote below about the "Allard Death Camp" I believe can be attributed to Navarro or one of his many cronies.



n particularly troubling chapter in the Allard scandal, the Federal Bureau of Investigation intercepted a phone conversation in which two other alleged conspirators discussed the deaths of horses trained by Allard after they had been given illegal drugs. One reference caught on wiretap described the trainer’s operation as the “Allard death camp.”

[Inner Dirt]

I suppose this is the case of the dopers staying ahead of the testers? The crap needs to get cleaned up. I can't remember his name but I believe it was in the 80's, a trainer at Los Alamitos QH was working magic in the 870 yard claiming races. I think at the time the claiming range was $2-$20k at that distance. Horses made incredible improvements winning at levels they previously could not. If a horse was claimed away it would get crushed until it returned to the level miracle trainer claimed it from.



The guy got away with this for quite some time. It was finally discovered he was giving the horses heroin. I wish someone would remember the incident and the guy's name. In the pre OTB days I would do the SA/HOL-Los Al double header on Saturdays.

[PhantomOnTour]

His only entry today has been scratched out of Race 9, the Mamzelle Stakes.
He has one entered tomorrow in R3, and one entered on Friday
Stay tuned...
oh, he also has Lord Miles entered in the Derby on Sat.

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by metro

Not a good start for CD, these two and Take Charge Briana on the turf today. This just days before the sports’ Super Bowl of racing.

Was watching with my wife -a casual fan - when Take Charge Briana broke down. This is a terrible look for the sport. I have nothing for or against Saffie Joseph - a look at rulings suggest he's not unfamiliar with the needle.

[Robert Fischer]

Saffie is not unique among the trainers.

Their overages mostly fall between pushing the envelope, being a little disorganized, etc..

the overages are not the medications that moving horses up 10 points and causing their stamina to increase. Those medications are 'ahead of the testers', or in other words virtually undetectable.

an average fan or player's perception, and the media's limited understanding along with the industries limited options of action as well as having to act in their best interests, it's just the tip of the iceberg, and they don't even accurately see the iceberg, they see a small island/islet? or whatever the hell an iceberg could be mistaken for.

in the nfl

Twitter

fans believe that the NFL tests for steroids and growth hormones etc...
the NFL owners (the ones that care or look) and the guys the owners pay to help think, and the team employees etc. etc.. know full well what the deal is. It would be super expensive and a pain in the neck to try to stay ahead of the users. It would also make many of the players less super-human in looks and performance. They'd have a tougher time recovering from contact and injuries and returning from big injuries and surgeries, and playing extra years on their contract.
All of this would also negatively affect the advertising contracts.
long story short, the NFL unspoken allows the steroids and growth hormones etc... they make an example of a few players each year to show that they 'enforce' the no steroids/growth hormones/etc.. rule.
The majority of fans believe that the NFL is clean and if they can see/believe that a villain player or a few players with freakish physiques are using gear, then most fans take that as a rarity in a mostly clean and enforced sport.

in pro wrestling or pro bodybuilding
i think almost everyone understands that these guys are using a ton of gear.
there's surely a few out there who think it's clean or that cheating is rare, and there's probably a pro Wrestling segment that simply doesn't think much about things, but generally everyone knows, no one cares. The sports deny it and do some light propaganda, but you have to be the biggest freier, the most naive person to be an adult and spend more than 5 minutes watching the sport and not know. It's just part of the sport and entertainment.

Unfortunately our game is now in 'NFL' territory.

__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.

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Last edited by Robert Fischer; 05-03-2023 at 03:43 PM.