A Sport without a “Voice”

[melman]

Cratos I'll end this also. We will just have to disagree. You say it's all politics and I say racing now is not the only game in town. I do agree with the last post of AndyC. I would hope that we at least can find common ground on this. There will never be the large attendance at tracks that happened in the past. With the ease of betting today on the internet why go to the track? That is part of the problem right there. Your type of wishful thinking you dress up with fancy statements. I remember the same type thinking when "racing can be much better we just need expanded simulcasting". Then "racing can be much better we just need to work with the casino's to increase purses and attrack better horses and more owners". The huge expansion in gambling over the past twenty years has taken the casual players away from the racing industry. I take no delight in saying any of this. I loved my days of going to Delaware Park during the day and then Brandywine at night, or the old Keystone Park during the day to Liberty Bell Park at night. Met a lot of friends for life at those places. To this day I really miss Brandywine summer nights. But I face the facts and deal in reality not wishful thinking.
Those days are over. Racing's days are not over. There will always be some major tracks. The best hope for better days I think is for a drastic cut in the takeout rates and less racing days with fewer tracks.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by melman

Cratos I'll end this also. We will just have to disagree. You say it's all politics and I say racing now is not the only game in town. I do agree with the last post of AndyC. I would hope that we at least can find common ground on this. There will never be the large attendance at tracks that happened in the past. With the ease of betting today on the internet why go to the track? That is part of the problem right there. Your type of wishful thinking you dress up with fancy statements. I remember the same type thinking when "racing can be much better we just need expanded simulcasting". Then "racing can be much better we just need to work with the casino's to increase purses and attrack better horses and more owners". The huge expansion in gambling over the past twenty years has taken the casual players away from the racing industry. I take no delight in saying any of this. I loved my days of going to Delaware Park during the day and then Brandywine at night, or the old Keystone Park during the day to Liberty Bell Park at night. Met a lot of friends for life at those places. To this day I really miss Brandywine summer nights. But I face the facts and deal in reality not wishful thinking.
Those days are over. Racing's days are not over. There will always be some major tracks. The best hope for better days I think is for a drastic cut in the takeout rates and less racing days with fewer tracks.

It comes down to supply and demand. The wagering product is overpriced, so, its not going to attract as many customers to make purchases if it was more competitively priced. People can bet an NFL game at what's essentially a 5% takeout, why bet a horse race at 17% especially if you know more about the NFL (or, so they think) than horse racing?

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

It comes down to supply and demand. The wagering product is overpriced, so, its not going to attract as many customers to make purchases if it was more competitively priced. People can bet an NFL game at what's essentially a 5% takeout, why bet a horse race at 17% especially if you know more about the NFL (or, so they think) than horse racing?

It's over priced re: take out and in some markets, has reached a saturation point.
For example. For someone who lives in Central NJ, it is possible to reach several gaming/gambling venues of several types in one hour of car travel time.
Two hours, gets them to every casino save the two in CT.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Cratos

I don’t know exactly where to begin in responding to your post so I will start by saying I have been in this game for 40+ years (almost exclusively on the NYRA circuit) and I have seen the decline in this sport close up and personal.

Therefore I am not a person who dream of the “good old days” because I believe the best days are here and in the future. Many things have change since the days that Man O’ War and Seabiscuit were the darlings of the sports world along with Babe Ruth and Joe Louis. We have gone to the moon, developed the personal computer and the Internet to name a few significant changes.

If you are inferring that the task that I am advocating will be difficult I will agree with you wholeheartedly, but it is not impossible or improbable.
The major obstacle facing thoroughbred racing today is POLITICS.

Thoroughbred racing is looked upon by the various authorizing states that have legalized racing as a “cash cow.” Go back over the last 50 years and ask yourself how much investment has been put into thoroughbred racing to improve its infrastructure and you find it to be minimal while the other major sports were building new stadiums and arenas, racing was doing little or nothing.

The major changes in horseracing has come in the form of betting which benefited the authorizing states probably more than any other entity because it increased the revenues to the authorizing states from the mutuel take.

As I said, politics is the “blocking wall”, but it can be overcome because horseracing along with basketball, hockey, golf, and tennis plays very well on both the American and international stages and that is where I suggest horseracing go.

Yes to do this it will take major reorganization of how horseracing is managed in this country, but multinational economic entities are not new and many are doing just well today.

I will leave you with this, I have spent my professional life in the consulting side of the business world and I have seen what was called the “impossible” become the possible with major profit. Stop looking backwards, look ahead because that is where change occurs.

There is not single state that looks up on horse racing as cash cow anymore. Most states are hoping to collect enough in taxes from it to pay for regulating it. I can safely say that horse racing in any state never produces more than a fraction of 1% of its revenues. If you can name a state does more than I will eat my words and quit posting. I look into this a couple years ago. If you could get a governor or state senator to say what they really think about racing, I am sure they'd say it is more trouble than it is worth. There are a lot of things wrong with racing, but the politicians are far down the list. The only good thing politicians could do for racing is to pass laws to get rid of the drugs and the doping trainers out the game(and in jail). Even that the game could do for itself if it had the will power.

[Robert Goren]

At this point, the only thing racing has going for it is that it the only thing that you can legally bet on in the US. And it is doing a lousy job of even using that advantage. If online poker is legalized again, me and about third of the bettors will abandoned racing for poker because you get far more bang for your buck. Horse racing from a purely rake point of view is the worst bet going this side of Chuck-a-Luck and that is even with the rebates. It does have going for it that has the illusion of a game of skill. And even that illusion is fast disappearing for a number reasons.

[grant miller]

abc-and ,espn are in bed with the nba-if you listen to there sports radio all they talk about is what ever sports there sleepng with- (x- games, nba , espys ) ,I pissed off mike & mike a few years ago when I called and said that they only care about the nba ,before I got cut off , I tould them that your show jumped the shark! and your 2 snake oil sailmen for whomever is on espn tv now.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by grant miller

abc-and ,espn are in bed with the nba-if you listen to there sports radio all they talk about is what ever sports there sleepng with- (x- games, nba , espys ) ,I pissed off mike & mike a few years ago when I called and said that they only care about the nba ,before I got cut off , I tould them that your show jumped the shark! and your 2 snake oil sailmen for whomever is on espn tv now.

That's called cross promotion.

That's the same reason the record company(s) that Disney owns books their acts on Kimmel ten times as often as other late night shows.

Often the theme songs used on ESPN and ESPN DOcumentaries etc are from artists signed to a Disney record company. Then there are either no royalties paid or the royalties are paid from one Disney company to another.

NBC does the same with Leno and CBS with Letterman. The only artists that cross over are the ones who are huge hits, and will bring ratings to the other network. But it doesn't happen often. Leno actually fought with GE and Universal. when they bought Vivendi it didnt include Universal music.

Leno began inviting tons of artists on the show from other record companies that were affiliated with other networks and companies. Leno won out because his ratings got better.

For just a short example here is a list of Disney owned music companies and TV properties ripe for cross promotion. And of course they own ESPN too.

Disney–ABC Television Group[edit]
ABC, Inc. DBA Disney–ABC Television Group[11]
Disney/ABC Television Group Digital Media
Walt Disney Television
Disney-ABC Domestic Television - formerly Buena Vista Television
Disney-ABC International Television - formerly Buena Vista International Television
ABC Television Network
ABC News
A+E Networks (joint venture with Hearst Corporation; equity holding)
A&E
History
Bio.
H2
Military History
Crime & Investigation Network
Lifetime
Lifetime Movie Network
Lifetime Real Women

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Music_Group

Cross promotion drives most of what's covered on non News networks. I suspect tons of news shows are influenced by it too

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

That's called cross promotion.

That's the same reason the record company(s) that Disney owns books their acts on Kimmel ten times as often as other late night shows.

Often the theme songs used on ESPN and ESPN DOcumentaries etc are from artists signed to a Disney record company. Then there are either no royalties paid or the royalties are paid from one Disney company to another.

NBC does the same with Leno and CBS with Letterman. The only artists that cross over are the ones who are huge hits, and will bring ratings to the other network. But it doesn't happen often. Leno actually fought with GE and Universal. when they bought Vivendi it didnt include Universal music.

Leno began inviting tons of artists on the show from other record companies that were affiliated with other networks and companies. Leno won out because his ratings got better.

For just a short example here is a list of Disney owned music companies and TV properties ripe for cross promotion. And of course they own ESPN too.

Disney–ABC Television Group[edit]
ABC, Inc. DBA Disney–ABC Television Group[11]
Disney/ABC Television Group Digital Media
Walt Disney Television
Disney-ABC Domestic Television - formerly Buena Vista Television
Disney-ABC International Television - formerly Buena Vista International Television
ABC Television Network
ABC News
A+E Networks (joint venture with Hearst Corporation; equity holding)
A&E
History
Bio.
H2
Military History
Crime & Investigation Network
Lifetime
Lifetime Movie Network
Lifetime Real Women

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Music_Group

Cross promotion drives most of what's covered on non News networks. I suspect tons of news shows are influenced by it too

Not actually cross promotion.
Narrowing things down to the state of racing coverage, the issue is the promotion of certain sports on what is presumably an all sports network, to the exclusion of all others.
ESPN hosts ignore horse racing as do many radio talk show hosts. To a lesser extent, NHL is treated with the same respect as the red headed step child.
What has occurred is the all sports niche has marginalized certain sports in the name of market research and a strict adherence to viewer ratings.

[VastinMT]

Originally Posted by thespaah

Not actually cross promotion.
Narrowing things down to the state of racing coverage, the issue is the promotion of certain sports on what is presumably an all sports network, to the exclusion of all others.
ESPN hosts ignore horse racing as do many radio talk show hosts. To a lesser extent, NHL is treated with the same respect as the red headed step child.
What has occurred is the all sports niche has marginalized certain sports in the name of market research and a strict adherence to viewer ratings.

I don't watch a lot of ESPN, because I like sports -- not just the NFL and NBA.

If ESPN were to cover horse racing the way it covers the NFL, we would have video crews stationed in every breeding barn in the country, with in-depth analysis of whether or not the standing session we're about to witness is going to help the barn find a starter in the Breeder's Cup before the barn down the road can create a Kentucky Derby sire.

Then they'd kick it back to the studio because the winner of the 7th at Golden Gate (ImobsessedwiththeNFL, by labronisendlesslyfascinating out of labronstinks by labronisgod, a runner partly owned by ESPN) just changed to a left-hand lead at the top of the stretch, the first time he's done that since two years ago prior to his win in a nonwinner of two at Hastings on a sloppy track, in a race attended by Taylor Swift's second video director!

Someone would put up a graphic showing that no horse has ever done that in the entire history of horse racing since May 14, 1997, except for two others. Then Skip Bayless would whine about it.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by VastinMT

I don't watch a lot of ESPN, because I like sports -- not just the NFL and NBA.

If ESPN were to cover horse racing the way it covers the NFL, we would have video crews stationed in every breeding barn in the country, with in-depth analysis of whether or not the standing session we're about to witness is going to help the barn find a starter in the Breeder's Cup before the barn down the road can create a Kentucky Derby sire.

Then they'd kick it back to the studio because the winner of the 7th at Golden Gate (ImobsessedwiththeNFL, by labronisendlesslyfascinating out of labronstinks by labronisgod, a runner partly owned by ESPN) just changed to a left-hand lead at the top of the stretch, the first time he's done that since two years ago prior to his win in a nonwinner of two at Hastings on a sloppy track, in a race attended by Taylor Swift's second video director!

Someone would put up a graphic showing that no horse has ever done that in the entire history of horse racing since May 14, 1997, except for two others. Then Skip Bayless would whine about it.

This pretty much sums up why I don't even know what channel ESPN and it's half-dozen step-siblings are on my cable system.

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by VastinMT

I don't watch a lot of ESPN, because I like sports -- not just the NFL and NBA.

If ESPN were to cover horse racing the way it covers the NFL, we would have video crews stationed in every breeding barn in the country, with in-depth analysis of whether or not the standing session we're about to witness is going to help the barn find a starter in the Breeder's Cup before the barn down the road can create a Kentucky Derby sire.

Then they'd kick it back to the studio because the winner of the 7th at Golden Gate (ImobsessedwiththeNFL, by labronisendlesslyfascinating out of labronstinks by labronisgod, a runner partly owned by ESPN) just changed to a left-hand lead at the top of the stretch, the first time he's done that since two years ago prior to his win in a nonwinner of two at Hastings on a sloppy track, in a race attended by Taylor Swift's second video director!

Someone would put up a graphic showing that no horse has ever done that in the entire history of horse racing since May 14, 1997, except for two others. Then Skip Bayless would whine about it.

This is brilliant. Absolutely right about the coverage!

Ever see the movie Dodgeball? "ESPN8 - The Ocho" was funny at the time but now is closer to truth than parody.

[Zydeco]

[QUOTE=VastinMT]I don't watch a lot of ESPN, because I like sports -- not just the NFL and NBA.

If ESPN were to cover horse racing the way it covers the NFL, we would have video crews stationed in every breeding barn in the country, with in-depth analysis of whether or not the standing session we're about to witness is going to help the barn find a starter in the Breeder's Cup before the barn down the road can create a Kentucky Derby sire.

Then they'd kick it back to the studio because the winner of the 7th at Golden Gate (ImobsessedwiththeNFL, by labronisendlesslyfascinating out of labronstinks by labronisgod, a runner partly owned by ESPN) just changed to a left-hand lead at the top of the stretch, the first time he's done that since two years ago prior to his win in a nonwinner of two at Hastings on a sloppy track, in a race attended by Taylor Swift's second video director!

Someone would put up a graphic showing that no horse has ever done that in the entire history of horse racing since May 14, 1997, except for two others. Then Skip Bayless would whine about it.[/QUOTE
This is great! so true

[CincyHorseplayer]

I bet I could sit down with Thask,about 11 am,be given a vanilla coverage script,add in our own things we wanted to talk about with time estimates,stick a mike and camera in our faces and we'd blow away TVG,NBC,and whatnot!I'm not scared.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer

I bet I could sit down with Thask,about 11 am,be given a vanilla coverage script,add in our own things we wanted to talk about with time estimates,stick a mike and camera in our faces and we'd blow away TVG,NBC,and whatnot!I'm not scared.

And watch the ratings skyrocket!

[CincyHorseplayer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And watch the ratings skyrocket!

Absolutely!And the first thing we would do is shut the hole in our faces when it was post time and have zero delays.Talk about the subjectivity of betting and leave it at that and move on to handicapping,and especially not be talking about feature races that are 6 hours away while we verbally jerk-off a "Featured" track which shouldn't be.Plus we might mention some things that actually exist,like pace figures,pedigree ratings,and form cycles as it relates to ages,days between,and trainer intent after top efforts and/or wins etc etc.Plus I think the occasional good hearty insult is given it's due diligence when you see a track I love like Belmont where trainers/jocks are getting hammered at the windows and a perfectly dominant on figures across the board horse goes off at 7/2,6-1,8-1.It happens and they deserve some chastising!