Exchange Wagering: Betfair-TVG submission to the California Horse Racing Board - Page 2 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

andymays · 12-06-2011, 05:12 PM

My opinion is that they're going to say whatever they need to say to get approved and provide the details later. That's how things work out here. Especially over the last couple of years with Keith Brackpool as Chairman of the CHRB.

Canarsie · 12-06-2011, 05:33 PM

I really don't see how they are going to pull this off. Why would NYRA, CD, Stronach, etc. let their signal be sent to California if their not getting a cut their accustomed to.

Does anybody have an idea what's a tracks cut from the exchange wagering in the United Kingdom? I might be brain dead but isn't it zero or something really small?

andymays · 12-06-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canarsie

I really don't see how they are going to pull this off. Why would NYRA, CD, Stronach, etc. let their signal be sent to California if their not getting a cut their accustomed to.

Does anybody have an idea what's a tracks cut from the exchange wagering in the United Kingdom? I might be brain dead but isn't it zero or something really small?

There is a lot of "approve it now and we'll give you the details later" stuff going on. I'm for giving it a shot but I want the details.

Canarsie · 12-06-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

There is a lot of "approve it now and we'll give you the details later" stuff going on. I'm for giving it a shot but I want the details.

That's the problem with Betfair they never give up any info. I found out on a blog here in NJ that they hired Tom Cassidy well over two weeks before they announced it. When the cuts were made there was never a comment from them.

http://www.monmouthpark.com/Blogs.as...463&blogid=147

What about the security breach not a PEEP.

Think about what I'm saying that they almost NEVER do a PR release to my knowledge. Didn't someone post they were going high def I see that got off the ground really well. Here's an interview from Keeneland VP Nicholson

We’ve been encouraging TVG to go HD for some years now and I’m glad that they are. I was glad to see them make the decision.”

http://horseracing.bloginky.com/2011...ick-nicholson/

edmond1 · 12-06-2011, 06:20 PM

Other exchanges (Betdaq/Betmaker) should benefit from this , right ??

They charge low commissions (currently 2.5%) and no premium charges. Don't think they contribute anything to U.S. racetracks though. Not sure if Betfair contributes anything to U.S. tracks they offer now.

I am from Canada and also find that there is very little interest here when it comes to Betfair. Go out of the way to show fellow punters the benefits of an exchange(2-5% takeout) .... but most of them rather continue betting into 20-30% takeout pools.... Really don't think it will work out in the U.S. especially at 10%. Even then deals are hard to find these days - too much smart money.. Better to bet at rebate shop in many cases now.

Seabiscuit@AR · 12-06-2011, 08:07 PM

The drop in churn rate from 7 to 4 I would put down to the combination of high takeout rate plus big rebates. When you rebate one group of people you are effectively raising the takeout for the other non rebated group in the pools. These non rebated players then lose their money faster than ever to the rebated players

Over time the non rebated players drop out of the game as it is not as much fun anymore. At the same time the rebate players being mostly value seeking and price sensitive players drop their bet sizes so they don't hurt their own value prices by over betting them. End result pools dropping an alarming rate

This is the long term effect of rebating after the short honeymoon period in the earlier years when the pools go up a fraction as the rebated money bets up big

DeanT · 12-06-2011, 09:01 PM

I disagree on that.

I can pop $500 in an account at 2:35 on a Saturday (rebated or non-rebated) and lose the five bills by betting seven or eight races, all stocked with mucho exotics, by 3:15. It matters not if some dude is getting a 5% rake boost.

Twenty years ago I would bet the first at Woodbine at 1PM, with WPS only. Bet $5, $10, $15, cash a show, break even, do it in the second, but bet $60 win and a couple of $20 exs, b/c there is no tri wagering, or another track to play. Lose that one, live for the third a half hour later.

In a half hour I have lost 15% of my bankroll. Now, in a half hour I could lose the GDP of Albania.

Some_One · 12-06-2011, 09:47 PM

I don't understand how anyone can say there is too much smart money on the exchanges, horses 95% of the time go above their tote odds, so you will get a better price essentially. Just sounds like another cry of the degen loser handicapper.

Seabiscuit@AR · 12-07-2011, 07:02 AM

DeanT

Yes you are right in that there are probably more exotic bets out there these days. And these exotic bets are mostly at a higher takeout rate than win and place bets so players lose their money faster. I agree with that

But gifting huge rebates to certain players makes things worse. And guess which pools these big players with the big rebates like to play most of all? It is not win or place. It is the exotics (with one exception being the place tote plunger on the Tassie tote). The people with really big rebates like to get stuck into the exotic pools. And as the takeout is bigger for the exotics they get given a bigger rebate for the exotic pools. So their advantage over the non rebated player is bigger and the speed at which they drain the non rebate players accounts is even faster than in the win pool

So the reason for players losing their money faster is a combination of more money in exotics and rebates

DeanT · 12-07-2011, 12:25 PM

A blogger looks at the (not popular and probable handle killing in the short term) view of making less bets available instead of more.

Good analytical piece, whether we agree or disagree!

http://www.equinometry.com/2011/12/0...etting-horses/

Al Gobbi · 12-07-2011, 01:12 PM

How about spending some of this money to show a few more tracks guys. Just Aqueduct until Hawthorne starts at 2:40pm. No Parx, Tampa, Chester or anything else before then.

cj · 12-07-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanT

A blogger looks at the (not popular and probable handle killing in the short term) view of making less bets available instead of more.

Good analytical piece, whether we agree or disagree!

http://www.equinometry.com/2011/12/0...etting-horses/

I agree, and have for a while. By giving more options, you are diluting the pools. This may not matter much to the guy betting $10 or $20 a race, but it matters a lot to guys betting $500. I'm not sure why racing is catering to the former.