Religion III

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Are you going to tell us the future precedes the present ant the present precedes the past for the 1000th stupidest time?

Jan 20, 2021 is coming not fading. And when it arrives your inept fool of a president, will fade and vanish and you will be fading from this board for losing big time, an honest wager.

Toot-a-loo

You will get to find out what "losing big time" is when you fade from this life into the next one.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You will get to find out what "losing big time" is when you fade from this life into the next one.

What a schmuck! You have nothing to say, so you can only whimper "damn you"

Get your affairs in order. Maybe write another moronic 11 part thesis on "what the universe is?

But it looks like publishing will be done posthumously

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You will get to find out what "losing big time" is when you fade from this life into the next one.

That statement would have have some impact if you could prove that there is a "next one" but you can't.

[hcap]

Hey box some of your buddies wish you well on your way out.
Merry Xmass, happy Hanukkah.

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Hey box some of your buddies wish you well on your way out.
Merry Xmass, happy Hanukkah.

https://youtu.be/bEBnnIBlVpo

https://youtu.be/kAgTZSJ4jo8

Wish them well for me, too.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

That statement would have have some impact if you could prove that there is a "next one" but you can't.

The resurrection of Christ proves there's an afterlife.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The resurrection of Christ proves there's an afterlife.

There are two claims implicit in that statement: (1)That Christ, i.e., Joshua son of Joseph, actually existed, and (2)that said Christ was resurrected. As the one making the claims the burden of proof for both is yours.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

There are two claims implicit in that statement: (1)That Christ, i.e., Joshua son of Joseph, actually existed, and (2)that said Christ was resurrected. As the one making the claims the burden of proof for both is yours.

The proof is in the bible. Many different writers attest to Christ's existence and resurrection. And as important as that is, it pales in comparison to the transformed resurrection life that is the experience of all born again believers.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The proof is in the bible.

You mean the NT, which is nothing more than advertising copy from those with something to sell.

You could just as well say "The proof is in ____." Just fill in the blank with the Holy Book of whatever religion you want to sell. Islam, Confucianism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Trumpism.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Many different writers attest to Christ's existence and resurrection.

The problem is that the existence of these "many different writers" is also questionable. Can you name even one who wrote anything outside the NT?

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by Actor

You mean the NT, which is nothing more than advertising copy from those with something to sell.

You could just as well say "The proof is in ____." Just fill in the blank with the Holy Book of whatever religion you want to sell. Islam, Confucianism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Trumpism.

The problem is that the existence of these "many different writers" is also questionable. Can you name even one who wrote anything outside the NT?

The standards you hold, to prove the existence of Jesus, if applied to all the rest of ancient history. All of ancient history would simply disappear using your standards.

We have four Gospels. All written within a generation or so in the time of Jesus. All within the lifetime of eyewitnesses or people taught by eyewitnesses. These 4 Gospels also backed up by archaeological confirmation or other sources.
How does that compare to the rest of the ancient world ? Very, Very well.

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by Actor

You mean the NT, which is nothing more than advertising copy from those with something to sell.

?

The New Testament Epistles offer "incidental" information about Jesus and are written to address certain issues in the churches to people who are already persuaded of Christianity. Information is simply mentioned in passing and cannot be said to have any apologetical motive.
In other words they cannot be guilty of trying to persuade or sell an outside audiences about the Life of Jesus.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by porchy44

In other words they cannot be guilty of trying to persuade or sell an outside audiences about the Life of Jesus.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by porchy44

The standards you hold, to prove the existence of Jesus, if applied to all the rest of ancient history. All of ancient history would simply disappear using your standards.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

The claim of resurrection is certainly extraordinary. The NT is certainly not extraordinary evidence. If it were then The Iliad is extraordinary evidence that Zeus, along with an entire pantheon of gods, exists.

No one is claiming that Julius Caesar was resurrected. The same goes for Alexander the Great, Cheops, et al.

Originally Posted by porchy44

We have four Gospels.

How many accounts Caesar do we have? Conquest of Gaul, civil wars, assassination?

Originally Posted by porchy44

All written within a generation or so in the time of Jesus. All within the lifetime of eyewitnesses or people taught by eyewitnesses.

How do you know that? The burden of proof is yours. The oldest surviving copies of the Gospels are from the 4th or 5th century. The best you can do is a fragment of a page that may or may not be part of the Gospel of John, radiocarbon dated to the 2nd century C.E. On top of that is evidence that Christianity existed as far back as the 6th century B.C.E. Ergo, the Gospels could have been written at any time from 500 B.C.E. to 500 C.E.

Originally Posted by porchy44

These 4 Gospels also backed up by archaeological confirmation or other sources.

Another claim! Again the burden of proof is yours. I'd love to see your evidence.

Originally Posted by porchy44

How does that compare to the rest of the ancient world ? Very, Very well.

Until you meet the burden of proof it does not compare well to the rest of the ancient world at all.

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by Actor

Another claim! Again the burden of proof is yours. I'd love to see your evidence.

Until you meet the burden of proof it does not compare well to the rest of the ancient world at all.

If the Gospels are just made up stories, fiction and fables..
How come archaeological evidence keeps supporting everything they in fact say ?

There are hundreds of archaeological findings that confirm Gospel details.
let me give you a few examples.

1) In 1961 the inscription of Pontius Pilate was the first confirmation outside of the Bible, of the man who sentenced Christ.

2)In 1990, the burial grounds of Caiaphas the High Priest was discovered in a burial cave in South Jerusalem. This was the High Priest who actually presided over the trial of Jesus. We now have found his family tomb.

3)Archaeology has discovered numerous coins that provide archaeological evidence of King Herrod the Great, and the other King herrod who is mentioned in the Gospels.

4) Another great example is "the pool of Bethesda". This was in the Gospel of John where Jesus cured a sick man. What's interesting about this one is critical scholars said John did not know what he was talking about. An archaeological dig in the 19th century found this "pool of Bethesda". There is a "pool named Bethesda. It is exactly where he said it was (near the sheep gate). And it has five porches like John said it did.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by porchy44

1) In 1961 the inscription of Pontius Pilate was the first confirmation outside of the Bible, of the man who sentenced Christ.

So the grave of William T. Sherman proves that Scarlet O'Hara was a real person?

Actually your claim that the discovery of the "Pilate Stone" was the first confirmation outside the Bible is inaccurate. Philo of Alexandria and Josephus both mention him. We also know a little about his family in Rome.

Originally Posted by porchy44

2)In 1990, the burial grounds of Caiaphas the High Priest was discovered in a burial cave in South Jerusalem. This was the High Priest who actually presided over the trial of Jesus. We now have found his family tomb.

So what? Caiaphas is also a known historical figure mentioned outside the NT.

Originally Posted by porchy44

3)Archaeology has discovered numerous coins that provide archaeological evidence of King Herrod the Great, and the other King herrod who is mentioned in the Gospels.

Again, so what? Known historical figures. Herod the Great in particular was well known for his building projects (which are not mentioned in the NT).

Originally Posted by porchy44

4) Another great example is "the pool of Bethesda". This was in the Gospel of John where Jesus cured a sick man. What's interesting about this one is critical scholars said John did not know what he was talking about. An archaeological dig in the 19th century found this "pool of Bethesda". There is a "pool named Bethesda. It is exactly where he said it was (near the sheep gate). And it has five porches like John said it did.

Yet another big SO WHAT? All of these are like claiming that the fact that the American Civil War is a historical event proves that Scarlet O'Hara was a real person. But she was not.