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03-01-2018, 08:53 PM
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#331
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Personally, in this dangerous world in which we live, I'd prefer to be as self-sufficient as possible.
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Maybe you and Trump can afford that. Most of us can't. You have no problems with a 15% increase in the cost of living?
And the reality is that we live in a global economy. For example, a lot of American steel producers are not starting with iron ore and producing finished steel. They are starting with unfinished imported steel and producing the final product that a manufacturer can use. The same is true of many other products that are "Made in America".
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A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-02-2018, 02:00 AM
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#332
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 4,560
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Don't know the exact year but the USA has been running trade deficits every year since the 1970s!!
How has all this free trade helped the American working citizen these past 45 years? GDP growth in the USA has averaged under 2 per cent annually since 2008 -- how has all those free trade agreements in place have helped America's economy since then?
I know that those that run multi-national billion dollars corporations, let's call them the Fortune 500, have become uber wealthy on the backs of American citizens. These globalists only want cheap labor to make cheap products by uneducated workers to sell to the masses.
Same with the phony prostituted GOP politicians who took the money from these s-bags all under the lie that 'free trade is good for the country'. What a joke.
Since the early 1990s when NAFTA was put in place we've lost over 600,000 well-paying manufacturing jobs and tens of thousands of plants and factories. How has all that free trade helped this country? Oh yeah, I forgot: there are 1000s of 'Dollar' stores in every neighborhood in the country nowadays. Forgive me but $3 a pair for socks don't impress me.
These GOP whores, the Fortune 500 internationalists and the local Chamber(s) of Commerce can all go to hell, especially those frauds like General Motors, who was given tax payer 'bailout' dollars -- then took the dough and paid bonuses to executives, propped up the union coffers that they were obligated by law to fund but didn't, and then moved plants off shore.
The US steel companies don't need this tariff to succeed. They need a level playing field.
And they certainly don't need the US politicians to write trade agreements that allowed foreign countries to dump cheap steel and aluminum subsidized by their governments on us, either.
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03-02-2018, 11:32 AM
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#333
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Now this whole thing is getting really serious.
Quote:
Donald Trump's plan to slap a 10 percent tariff on all aluminum imports has beer makers belching their outrage.
"President Trump's announcement today that he plans to impose a 10% tariff on aluminum imports will increase the cost of aluminum in the United States and endanger American jobs in the beer industry and throughout the supply chain," says Jim McGreevey, president and CEO of the Beer Institute, a trade association.
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http://reason.com/blog/2018/03/02/tr...-beer-industry
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-02-2018, 11:49 AM
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#334
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Maybe you and Trump can afford that. Most of us can't. You have no problems with a 15% increase in the cost of living?
And the reality is that we live in a global economy. For example, a lot of American steel producers are not starting with iron ore and producing finished steel. They are starting with unfinished imported steel and producing the final product that a manufacturer can use. The same is true of many other products that are "Made in America".
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I'll take self-sufficiency any day. And I'd be willing to sacrifice luxuries for it. The bigger reality is that we live in a very dangerous world.
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Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-02-2018, 11:50 AM
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#335
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
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Good thing I buy only bottled beer.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-02-2018, 11:52 AM
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#336
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckless
The US steel companies don't need this tariff to succeed. They need a level playing field.
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Like what paying steel workers $2-3/hour to create low grade steel?
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03-02-2018, 12:09 PM
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#337
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Like what paying steel workers $2-3/hour to create low grade steel?
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The US steel industry is producing more steel today than in 1990 with over 48,000 fewer workers. The steel industry employment here went on a deep dive in 1990, four years before NAFTA. Anyone believe those jobs are coming back?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...e-simple-chart
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-02-2018, 12:12 PM
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#338
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 4,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Like what paying steel workers $2-3/hour to create low grade steel?
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It's the foreign steel makers that are paying low wages and producing cheap poorly grade rolls of steel. And these companies --heavily subsidized by their own governments-- were able to dump this crap in the USA.
You roll your eyes but truthfully --and I'm not trying to be snarky-- you sound totally clueless on this matter, if I read your post correctly.
Do you really think all these trade agreements passed by Congress --mostly when the GOP was in charge-- these past 40+ years has created a level-playing field for US based
companies?? Do you??
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03-02-2018, 12:20 PM
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#339
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckless
It's the foreign steel makers that are paying low wages and producing cheap poorly grade rolls of steel. And these companies --heavily subsidized by their own governments-- were able to dump this crap in the USA.
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We get 16% of our imported steel from Canada, and 2% from China. Do you really think that steel users like Ford Motors are buying cheap, poor grade steel?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-02-2018, 12:52 PM
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#340
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 4,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
We get 16% of our imported steel from Canada, and 2% from China. Do you really think that steel users like Ford Motors are buying cheap, poor grade steel?
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The short answer is yes.
In part, because of strict CAFE standards forced on US car makers to produce lighter cars for better fuel economy.
But let's say Ford, et al, use the highest grade steel imaginable, which I do not believe they do but I'll play along.
In a typical car, there is roughly between $500-700 worth of steel. What is the typical price range of 'family' and 'economy' type of models ... $15,000 up to $25,000?? Honestly, I am not exactly sure but I believe it's a range we can agree on.
So, a 15 per cent increase in imported steel costs to Ford, et al, should increase that sticker price by only $75 to $105.
The increases due to this tariff are pennies and nickels when compared to the final price of the car.
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03-02-2018, 01:16 PM
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#341
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,740
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how much money do these car dealers want to get you for? they are already dealing with a 2 for 1 invoice that they fool you with.
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03-02-2018, 02:42 PM
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#342
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Bush imposed similar tariffs on steel in 2002.
From Wiki
Quote:
On November 11, 2003, the WTO came out against the steel tariffs, saying that they had not been imposed during a period of import surge—steel imports had actually dropped a bit during 2001 and 2002—and that the tariffs therefore were a violation of America's WTO tariff-rate commitments. The ruling authorized more than $2 billion in sanctions, the largest penalty ever imposed by the WTO against a member state, if the United States did not quickly remove the tariffs.[4] After receiving the verdict, Bush declared that he would preserve the tariffs.[5] In retaliation, the European Union threatened to counter with tariffs of its own on products ranging from Florida oranges to cars produced in Michigan, with each tariff calculated to likewise hurt the President in a key marginal state. The United States backed down and withdrew the tariffs on December 4.[6]
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According to a 2005 review of existing research, all studies on the tariffs "find that the costs of the Safeguard Measures outweighed their benefits in terms of aggregate GDP and employment as well as having an important redistributive impact."[1]
Steel production rose slightly during the period of the tariff. [7] The protection of the steel industry in the United States may have had unintended consequences and perverse effects. A study from 2003 that was paid for by CITAC, a trade association of businesses that use raw materials, found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_U..._tariff#Impact
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-02-2018, 03:42 PM
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#343
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker says the EU is looking at new tariffs on US exports if Trump's tariffs go into effect.
Quote:
Trump's announcement has drawn condemnation across the globe, with several countries threatening retaliation if he imposes the duties.
"We would like a reasonable relationship to the United States, but we cannot simply put our head in the sand," Juncker said.
According to Reuters, the EU is weighing potential 25 percent tariffs on $3.5 billion worth of goods to "rebalance" trade with the U.S.
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http://thehill.com/regulation/intern...arley-davidson
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-02-2018, 04:33 PM
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#344
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,819
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Gee, weren't their heads in the sand - literally when we rebuilt Europe in the 1940s?
Take names and cross them off our aid for anything list.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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03-02-2018, 06:58 PM
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#345
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,471
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I agree with Tom here, and feel that we should suspend sharing of all intelligence with Europe until they understand our relationship with them has always been lopsided.
Last edited by fast4522; 03-02-2018 at 06:59 PM.
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