NBA Hot Stove

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by cj

Twitter fans? Um, ok.

The Thunder did not get nothing. They got Steven Adams, a guy teams will be lining up to pay in two years. You can bank on that. It can be argued he has been the best player from that draft. He isn't James Harden, but he filled a need and is a lot cheaper. They also have a very promising Euro-stash (Abrines) that is playing in Spain.

How can you say "if the owner isn't handcuffing" him? The team is WAY in the luxury tax. I believe currently they are 4th in overall salary and in the smallest market in the NBA.

What does last year have to do with anything? They were without two of their best three players most of the year. Durant missed all of it, and Westbrook and Ibaka missed big stretches at times. They were far from the only guys hurt as well. They had to scrape and added Waiters and Kanter mid season. I'm not sure what you would expect from a team with that many injuries in the West. It is a miracle they came close to making the playoffs. I don't know if they were worst statistically, but when you have a patchwork team that keeps changing, I wouldn't be surprised.

As far as the repeater tax, all the teams want to avoid it when possible. I have no problem getting rid of guys like Steve Novak and Perry Jones if that will help. If you wind up needing your 11-12-13-14-15 guys in the NBA you aren't going anywhere. May as well fill those spots with cheap guys.

I'm not sure what you are talking about with Jackson. Everyone knew what was going on with Jackson and Durant and Westbrook made it known. There isn't a lot you can do when you aren't playing, but they certainly weren't quiet about it. There is plenty to that story that you will never read in the national media. They dealt with him and got Kanter and Singler...I'm fine with that. I also am pretty sure that has a lot to do with Brooks being gone. He is the guy that didn't deal with it well, not the players.

Twitter, basketball boards related to OKC, I even got to see the Moore basketball courts on periscope. It was a small sample but those guys were awful and need a serious coach. Just busting your chops on that one but I really did see the courts.

Both you and I both know the only reason he is going over the cap is the same reason that Cleveland is. They have star players who can just pick up and leave without compensation. Essentially both owners who scream about small market teams are being held hostage even though the CBA is seriously tilted to the owners. Both probably pay $1 in arena rights and could get a nice sum of money putting it up for bid. Instead they choose to screw the NBA players but the lady running the show now is no idiot. I can't wait for the books of six teams to be opened (they're not doing OKC) and get to see all the different ways the players get screwed.

I think he handcuffed the residents of OKC by making them pay for their practice arena. If they were even breaking even I wouldn't have an issue with it but the owner is reaping a nice chunk of money in yearly profit. He could have signed Harden and renamed the arena. You can say what you want being a fan but if you think Adams is going to put you over the top compared to Harden your the first person on my speed dial list for making trades.

You can argue about Adams being the best in the draft but not many people would be listening. Maybe Presti will say it so Adams agent could use it as ammunition.

Ask one gm today if they would trade Harden for Adams and a european no name. If he was just an average player why wouldn't he come over here and play with the big boys?

Every guy who OKC drafts or trade for usually gets very high praise for you.

Originally Posted by cj

Durant is better this year, numbers don't lie.

For some reason? You can't be this clueless, have to be trolling. They've actually been better without Harden, FYI, but I guess you advocate paying your 3rd best player max money so he can average 16 a game. They'd have no money to pay anyone else.

Originally Posted by cj

Thunder 9-2 against the Spurs, no way I give the Spurs even a slight edge. I'm actually not too worried about the Thunder, they are going through a tough time, which all teams do, but I also remember they went 8-8 to end the season before making the finals. They aren't a young team any more, they know when the games matter. I could be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Well we all know what happened with the underdog inferior Spurs playing against OKC. The Spurs shocked the world winning that series.

Originally Posted by cj

I think this year, Brooks will get better. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but he is going to be forced to play the younger guys. Perry Jones is a freak athlete that I think will break out this year, McGary looks great so far, and Lamb has already shown he can score in the league. There are no more Fisher and Butler old guy crutches. The Thunder are actually going to implement at least some semblance of an offensive structure as well. You could see some of that in the summer league.

I also think Perkins playing time is about over. Adams is better on both ends of the floor. Perkins is way too bad on offense to play with the second unit, I think Collison soaks up his minutes. People seem to have written him off, but he actually played very well until the end of the year when it is now obvious his knee was a problem. He had surgery right after the season and I think he'll be back to what he was.

This is the same Perry Jones that you were raving about being a future star and now say no biggie if they cut him? Same deal with McGary? Lamb was traded for Luke Ridnour a guy who has been cut or traded around five times in a month.

Even though we engage in debates I respect your basketball knowledge you just go way over the top for OKC. But when it pertains to the entire NBA about other players, management, rules, etc. you bring a lot to the table and enjoy reading your posts along with a bunch of others. You don't have to post on pure basketball sites to be knowledgeable about the game.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

Twitter, basketball boards related to OKC, I even got to see the Moore basketball courts on periscope. It was a small sample but those guys were awful and need a serious coach. Just busting your chops on that one but I really did see the courts.

Both you and I both know the only reason he is going over the cap is the same reason that Cleveland is. They have star players who can just pick up and leave without compensation. Essentially both owners who scream about small market teams are being held hostage even though the CBA is seriously tilted to the owners. Both probably pay $1 in arena rights and could get a nice sum of money putting it up for bid. Instead they choose to screw the NBA players but the lady running the show now is no idiot. I can't wait for the books of six teams to be opened (they're not doing OKC) and get to see all the different ways the players get screwed.

I think he handcuffed the residents of OKC by making them pay for their practice arena. If they were even breaking even I wouldn't have an issue with it but the owner is reaping a nice chunk of money in yearly profit. He could have signed Harden and renamed the arena. You can say what you want being a fan but if you think Adams is going to put you over the top compared to Harden your the first person on my speed dial list for making trades.

You can argue about Adams being the best in the draft but not many people would be listening. Maybe Presti will say it so Adams agent could use it as ammunition.

Ask one gm today if they would trade Harden for Adams and a european no name. If he was just an average player why wouldn't he come over here and play with the big boys?

Every guy who OKC drafts or trade for usually gets very high praise for you.





Well we all know what happened with the underdog inferior Spurs playing against OKC. The Spurs shocked the world winning that series.




This is the same Perry Jones that you were raving about being a future star and now say no biggie if they cut him? Same deal with McGary? Lamb was traded for Luke Ridnour a guy who has been cut or traded around five times in a month.

Even though we engage in debates I respect your basketball knowledge you just go way over the top for OKC. But when it pertains to the entire NBA about other players, management, rules, etc. you bring a lot to the table and enjoy reading your posts along with a bunch of others. You don't have to post on pure basketball sites to be knowledgeable about the game.

Of course I'm biased!

But still, that stuff above needs to be taken in context. Adams probably is the best player from that draft. It wasn't a very good draft though, obviously. The Euro guy is very young still. You never get fair value trading a superstar.

Things are a lot different with the CBA these days. I've said all along I wish the Thunder had kept Harden and traded him after the season if they didn't want to match, but they didn't. I think they could have gotten just as good a deal after. Westbrook probably doesn't get hurt either since Houston and Beverly never would have sniffed the playoffs, but no way anybody could predict that.

The Thunder were a better team the next year without Harden record wise and statistically on both ends of the floor. Yes, they lost to San Antonio when Ibaka played games 3-6 on one leg after missing the first two. Again, nobody can predict Chris Paul will make a dirty play (actually that probably could be predited) and injure him.

Perry Jones actually played three very good games before getting hurt. But really anything that happened last year means nothing. I was talking about the bench being better and not loaded with old guys. But what happened was most of those guys were thrust into roles as starters and/or got hurt themselves.

Any team can get derailed by injuries. The Thunder had about 10 teams worth of injuries last year. If that happens again, they won't be very good, just like every other team in the NBA. If they stay healthy, they'll contend for the title. What more can a fan ask?

[cj]

Just heard Josh Smith to the Clippers, that is even better than Javale McGee!

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by cj

Just heard Josh Smith to the Clippers, that is even better than Javale McGee!

YOU WORRIED???

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by cj

Just heard Josh Smith to the Clippers, that is even better than Javale McGee!

Could be value as a mentor to Lance Stephenson.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

YOU WORRIED???

Clippers are certainly better with Jordan coming back. But worried about them winning anything, no.

[lansdale]

In the last couple of weeks, things seemed to have turned around dramatically for the Clips. DJ isn't leaving and they've added Stephenson, Pierce, and Josh Smith. Some are disparaging them already as an all-headcase team - maybe something there. But if they actually mesh, I think they have at least an outside shot at a trip to the finals.

If think there's general agreement that GSW still looks a cut above everybody else - I think the questions are about what appear to be the next three teams - Spurs, OKC, Clips - not necessarily in that order. Right now, I see the Spurs as second to Dubs, but I'm not sure about exactly where Clips and OKC should be - all have weaknesses.

Spurs have little backcourt D - four out of their five guards couldn't cover me - that's not good. Thompson and Curry would easily torch these guys right now - could the top heavy front line of the Spurs make up the difference? I don't think so. OKC has a strong group of starters, but I think that second unit is still weak - scoring yes, but not enough D, even assuming Adams is coming off the bench - I don't see these guys beating the Spurs, let alone Dubs. Clips are the real question mark. They could now be better than OKC and about on par with Spurs - or maybe better. If Stephenson demonstrates any interest in playing, the starters could average 95 ppg. and then they now have Pierce and JS coming off the bench. That's a strong group by any measure. All four teams could conceivably win 60 games. We'll see.

[cj]

Originally Posted by lansdale

In the last couple of weeks, things seemed to have turned around dramatically for the Clips. DJ isn't leaving and they've added Stephenson, Pierce, and Josh Smith. Some are disparaging them already as an all-headcase team - maybe something there. But if they actually mesh, I think they have at least an outside shot at a trip to the finals.

If think there's general agreement that GSW still looks a cut above everybody else - I think the questions are about what appear to be the next three teams - Spurs, OKC, Clips - not necessarily in that order. Right now, I see the Spurs as second to Dubs, but I'm not sure about exactly where Clips and OKC should be - all have weaknesses.

Spurs have little backcourt D - four out of their five guards couldn't cover me - that's not good. Thompson and Curry would easily torch these guys right now - could the top heavy front line of the Spurs make up the difference? I don't think so. OKC has a strong group of starters, but I think that second unit is still weak - scoring yes, but not enough D, even assuming Adams is coming off the bench - I don't see these guys beating the Spurs, let alone Dubs. Clips are the real question mark. They could now be better than OKC and about on par with Spurs - or maybe better. If Stephenson demonstrates any interest in playing, the starters could average 95 ppg. and then they now have Pierce and JS coming off the bench. That's a strong group by any measure. All four teams could conceivably win 60 games. We'll see.

OKC bench is weak? Really?

It is all going to come down to Durant being healthy for OKC in my opinion. If he is 100%, they'll be as good as anyone. If not, they'll be midpack. But this is by far the best bench they have ever had since I've been a fan.

I actually think Kanter will be 6th man. It will be him, Collison, Waiters, McGary, Singler, Augustin, Morrow, and Payne. That is as deep a bench as you will find in the NBA.

[lansdale]

Originally Posted by cj

OKC bench is weak? Really?

It is all going to come down to Durant being healthy for OKC in my opinion. If he is 100%, they'll be as good as anyone. If not, they'll be midpack. But this is by far the best bench they have ever had since I've been a fan.

I actually think Kanter will be 6th man. It will be him, Collison, Waiters, McGary, Singler, Augustin, Morrow, and Payne. That is as deep a bench as you will find in the NBA.

You did see that I said I thought this team will win 60 games - no question that they'll be among the best teams. And it does appear from the odds that KD will be back in his usual form. But you have to admit that except for McGary, this is a group of one-way players - good shooters, weak D. Collison was a solid player, but he's 35 and had a huge drop-off in his offensive numbers last year. As a rookie, Payne looks like a nice prospect, but I'll doubt we see much of him. I think GSW, Atlanta, the Spurs, and possibly even the Clips have a better bench.

But as I said in the previous post, all this is still tenative - speculation. All of the teams I was discussing (except Dubs) will be trying to absorb a lot of new players and we don't yet know what the chemistry will be like yet.

[cj]

Originally Posted by lansdale

You did see that I said I thought this team will win 60 games - no question that they'll be among the best teams. And it does appear from the odds that KD will be back in his usual form. But you have to admit that except for McGary, this is a group of one-way players - good shooters, weak D. Collison was a solid player, but he's 35 and had a huge drop-off in his offensive numbers last year. As a rookie, Payne looks like a nice prospect, but I'll doubt we see much of him. I think GSW, Atlanta, the Spurs, and possibly even the Clips have a better bench.

But as I said in the previous post, all this is still tenative - speculation. All of the teams I was discussing (except Dubs) will be trying to absorb a lot of new players and we don't yet know what the chemistry will be like yet.

McGary actually isn't very good on defense either! The thing with bench players though is that they usually are specialist or one way guys. If they weren't, they'd be starters. Most teams play 9 guys. The Thunder have 13 to pick from that are proven NBA players or have shown a lot of potential. There aren't many teams that can say that.

In any case, it is going to be a great season. Win, lose or draw I'll get my money's worth going to Thunder games I'm sure. That is good enough for me.

[lansdale]

Originally Posted by cj

McGary actually isn't very good on defense either! The thing with bench players though is that they usually are specialist or one way guys. If they weren't, they'd be starters. Most teams play 9 guys. The Thunder have 13 to pick from that are proven NBA players or have shown a lot of potential. There aren't many teams that can say that.

In any case, it is going to be a great season. Win, lose or draw I'll get my money's worth going to Thunder games I'm sure. That is good enough for me.

We can have a better debate about this subject after a couple of months of the coming season. As you say, the games between these teams should be spectacular, and you're very lucky to be able to be watching KD and WB live during the prime of their careers.

[Robert Fischer]

Kristaps Porzingis could actually turn out to be a 2nd or 3rd option type of team contributor. In 2-3 years he could be scoring between 15-20 and making a real impact overall.
The key appears to be The Knicks and leaders like Carmelo, Jackson embracing him and building his confidence.

He's a legit 7feet tall (may be 7'1 or so). He moves and has stamina like an NBA stretch-4. Yea, he'll be playing stretch-4, but the legs and motor aren't always part of that physical package.
He's got a jumper and he's got a quick release. He makes his own space for the jumper and gets it off quick.
He can't post up starters. He's foul prone. He's probably injury prone. The Knicks strength coach has to be thinking of a way to pack 20lbs of muscle on his frame. He can hit the 3pt shot, but he'll have to have confidence and the blessing of Melo and co.
He's a surprisingly good post defender (they played Okafor and Philly, and Okafor used his elite post moves to cut through the backup like a hot knife through butter, while Okafor struggled vs. Porzingis. Lots of length and quickness and instincts.

The vegas summer league is a joke, and any decent ballplayer could put up numbers, but he showed me enough that I was surprised by some of his abilities and skills. He's not a stiff. He'll need acceptance, confidence building and perhaps some bodybuilding.

check some of the tape:

[yt="summer league highlights"]1DgUPE58YPY[/yt]

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by cj

Clippers are certainly better with Jordan coming back. But worried about them winning anything, no.

They made the playoffs last year though, that's gotta count for something?

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by cj

Of course I'm biased!

But still, that stuff above needs to be taken in context. Adams probably is the best player from that draft. It wasn't a very good draft though, obviously. The Euro guy is very young still. You never get fair value trading a superstar.

Things are a lot different with the CBA these days. I've said all along I wish the Thunder had kept Harden and traded him after the season if they didn't want to match, but they didn't. I think they could have gotten just as good a deal after. Westbrook probably doesn't get hurt either since Houston and Beverly never would have sniffed the playoffs, but no way anybody could predict that.

The Thunder were a better team the next year without Harden record wise and statistically on both ends of the floor. Yes, they lost to San Antonio when Ibaka played games 3-6 on one leg after missing the first two. Again, nobody can predict Chris Paul will make a dirty play (actually that probably could be predited) and injure him.

Perry Jones actually played three very good games before getting hurt. But really anything that happened last year means nothing. I was talking about the bench being better and not loaded with old guys. But what happened was most of those guys were thrust into roles as starters and/or got hurt themselves.

Any team can get derailed by injuries. The Thunder had about 10 teams worth of injuries last year. If that happens again, they won't be very good, just like every other team in the NBA. If they stay healthy, they'll contend for the title. What more can a fan ask?

1. Don't raise ticket prices the team didn't make the playoffs last year. Take the financial hit as a matter of good faith the financial windfall comes the next year.

2. That's a big problem OKC has they have become a last resort for a bench player. They won't get the ball much and there is no guarantee how much playing time they will get.

3. Just like my beloved Red Sox with Babe Ruth it can be a lengthy period just getting back to the finals. That's the reason I'm so hard on the owner and I have no team in basketball. He has a very smart gm sign Harden to the max and take your time getting a much better deal. He makes money every year and the franchise valuation has (a guess) to be much higher now. It's a mistake that may live with the team (I hope not for your sake) an extended period of time.

4. I always wondered why the Thunder don't play chippy against The paper clips. I'm sure Mark Cuban would throw in as many legal incentives as he could.

5. Even though Harden isn't a superstar when the playoffs start it would have been much better to have him the following year. One never knows when the light bulb turns on. JJ Barea lit up the Heat and the whole team fed off of his energy.

I'll say this again that I truly hope Durant is ok. Any serious injury to a team's star player (s) is devastating. While everyone says he's ok it always scares me when they come out of the operating room and declare it was successful surgery. I can't recall once in my life that an athlete came out of surgery and there were different words used after the procedure. I don't have a team so watching everyone is a treat for me. If I usually say to myself "wow" at least 15-20 times during a game it was a great one to watch. I once saw Deandre Jordon sky about 2 feet over the rim and my jaw dropped. I could only dunk in a non contact situation and that was incredible I was really jealous.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by cj

OKC bench is weak? Really?

It is all going to come down to Durant being healthy for OKC in my opinion. If he is 100%, they'll be as good as anyone. If not, they'll be midpack. But this is by far the best bench they have ever had since I've been a fan.

I actually think Kanter will be 6th man. It will be him, Collison, Waiters, McGary, Singler, Augustin, Morrow, and Payne. That is as deep a bench as you will find in the NBA.

So if OKC has a good bench and a healthy RW, even if KD can't play at all you still think they're mid pack? Who's the 3rd best player in the team?