Turf Harness Racing, I like it!

[wilderness]

I must agree with Pandy here.

For support. . one only needs to reflect upon the changes in race times that took place with the Single-shaft sulky came into existence.

The modified sulky was the invention/design of the same person who introduced the Single-shaft, Joe King. After the SS was banned, King tried for approval of a dual shaft which mounted is a similar manner to the SS, although he could not get approval.
His further research resulted in the current modified design.

The King bike actually first appeared in 1958 and was tested at Buffalo Raceway on a horse named Baldwin Hanover with Levi Harner doing the driving.

Later came the Cheetah which was short lived also. Eventually banned, many claim unnecessarily.
The litigation took a while and was expensive for the USTA.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by arno

I
I remember Sports Eye at 35 cents before they had multi tracks or past performances. All they had was morning line and what they thought the horse would go off at.

.

When I was so young, I would walk over to Penn-Station in Newark, and from the corner newstand would purchase a "National Armstrong" ($.50) for Yonkers or Roosevelt, and I would handicap their "comments" to death...then phone the "bookie" to get my bets in, and wait for results and the stretch call on AM radio that nite, or else wait for the results in the morning newspaper.... ...The Red-Man was my hero...(speed)

best,

[wilderness]

Harness racing on the grass to debut at Rockingham Park

[wilderness]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

When I was so young, I would walk over to Penn-Station in Newark, and from the corner newstand would purchase a "National Armstrong" ($.50) for Yonkers or Roosevelt, and I would handicap their "comments" to death...then phone the "bookie" to get my bets in, and wait for results and the stretch call on AM radio that nite, or else wait for the results in the morning newspaper.... ...The Red-Man was my hero...(speed)

best,

LK,
You likely had that bookie cursing with all those "if comes"

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by wilderness

LK,
You likely had that bookie cursing with all those "if comes"

Don.....Nah, he "liked" me....

best,

[botster]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

Don.....Nah, he "liked" me....

best,

They are lighter for sure and aerodynamics I believe only help minimal IMO.The idea that the shafts "quickhitch" and are no longer tied down probably make the most difference IMO.Add in the previous two factors and it becomes a much bigger factor! This enables a horse to cut the turns smoother with less resistance.

As far as it being the biggest factor, I must disagree here.The addition of chemical warfare at an alltime high is why we see the biggest teletimer difference.The improvement of the breed is questionable, because we may be breeding faster horses to a degree, but they are not holding up!! It's a simple rule when you incorporate preracing with foreign substaces to make a horse go faster than he is naturaly able, it always causes consequences to that horse somewhere down the line.Think about it, or better yet, keep records on the "overnighters" at you local tracks and see how many dissapear never to be see again in your past performances.

It will never happen, but the day they level the field on preracing is the day we will see the teletimer drop.

Keep it real!

[pandy]

Thanks Arno

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Sinner369

These days it is all about speed.........early speed .........harness and thoroughbreds.........the only value found is betting closers..........it is almost become a lost art (finding the closing horses).

With the move to synthetic tracks, it seems thoroughbred racing is moving AWAY from early speed, not towards it. Of course on the dirt it's always nice to have speed, but there's less real dirt than there used to be.

[botster]

This is a great idea the trifecta pool was the largest of the night from what i understand.The prices were big, so that cannot be BAD.

On a bad note the M1 did a horrible job testing this out.The trainers were not happy at all, not only because the gate fiasco, but the turf conditions were way to deep!!

Horses such as METEOR MAN who is a chronic lame piece was hurting getting over that surface, and it should of had the reverse effects on him.There were others in there too, who were not taking to it.

The turf needs to be dry to a large degree, and not soggy, if they want to card the cheaper more problematic horses to compete.I would compare that turf to a true muddy dirt track that was not properly maitenanced.Suspensory ligiments are prone to be stressed on these type of surfaces, and I can guarantee that at least one of those entered that night has had previous issues with that injury, maybe it occured to some horse that night.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by botster

This is a great idea the trifecta pool was the largest of the night from what i understand.The prices were big, so that cannot be BAD.

On a bad note the M1 did a horrible job testing this out.The trainers were not happy at all, not only because the gate fiasco, but the turf conditions were way to deep!!

Horses such as METEOR MAN who is a chronic lame piece was hurting getting over that surface, and it should of had the reverse effects on him.There were others in there too, who were not taking to it.

The Standardbred horse is a much hardier breed of horse when compared to the much more "fragile" Thoroughbred, and yet I see that they are, breedwise, not well trained or adapted to this "surface"....So I say, why play with "fire", when there is no fire or a need for one, at that....

This is not good, as I see it...It will only spell problems further on down the line....No need for this, other than for entertainment and amusement purposes, and me, I could care less about it.....This is not the problem facing harness racing these day....

The Meadowlands has lost much of it's luster of previous seasons and generations...It has lost many quality entries to other tracks this season, and it shows, and it shows "scarily" bad this year...More than any year that I have seen....Yonkers Raceway, as a result of it's Casino has boosted their purses significantly this year, and has stolen many good horses from M1 as a result...Not to mention Chester and Pocono, with their Casino's, have purses equivalent or now even better the the Big-M....

I think that the Meadowlands, if we are to see it return as the "Shining Star" of Harness racing again, had better get more creative, and pronto, if they are to maintain what once was the place to be and compete, in harness racing...The are slipping into "Horse 3d Worldism" at an accelerated pace, IMO....

The quality of horses, especially "fast & fit" horses, was just not there for me this year....In fact it stunk this year....I played very little at this venue this season....A sad commentary to be sure...

I don't think "Turf" racing is the answer nor it is it going to change things, in any way, for the better...I surely hope they address the purse issue first, as I miss "my old" Big-M"...They must get the "BEST" horses available back, and quickly, at that....I think they are aware of this, and are working on it.....I certainly hope so...For me ,The Big-M, was always the finest and classiest Harness-Track in the world...It will be sad to see it cease being that....That bothers me...

best,

[botster]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

The Standardbred horse is a much hardier breed of horse when compared to the much more "fragile" Thoroughbred, and yet I see that they are, breedwise, not well trained or adapted to this "surface"....So I say, why play with "fire", when there is no fire or a need for one, at that....

This is not good, as I see it...It will only spell problems further on down the line....No need for this, other than for entertainment and amusement purposes, and me, I could care less about it.....This is not the problem facing harness racing these day....

The Meadowlands has lost much of it's luster of previous seasons and generations...It has lost many quality entries to other tracks this season, and it shows, and it shows "scarily" bad this year...More than any year that I have seen....Yonkers Raceway, as a result of it's Casino has boosted their purses significantly this year, and has stolen many good horses from M1 as a result...Not to mention Chester and Pocono, with their Casino's, have purses equivalent or now even better the the Big-M....

I think that the Meadowlands, if we are to see it return as the "Shining Star" of Harness racing again, had better get more creative, and pronto, if they are to maintain what once was the place to be and compete, in harness racing...The are slipping into "Horse 3d Worldism" at an accelerated pace, IMO....

The quality of horses, especially "fast & fit" horses, was just not there for me this year....In fact it stunk this year....I played very little at this venue this season....A sad commentary to be sure...

I don't think "Turf" racing is the answer nor it is it going to change things, in any way, for the better...I surely hope they address the purse issue first, as I miss "my old" Big-M"...They must get the "BEST" horses available back, and quickly, at that....I think they are aware of this, and are working on it.....I certainly hope so...For me ,The Big-M, was always the finest and classiest Harness-Track in the world...It will be sad to see it cease being that....That bothers me...

best,

Remember the New Zealand horses have been racing on the grass for a long time.This can be done, and if it is done correctly, it will indeed benefit the horse,horseman and the betting public.

You need to generate something new to this game.The pools showed that there was interest, and people just do not want to see boring five dollar winners, twenty dollar exactas crossing the wire night after night.This race was a wild finish with good payoffs..THATS WHAT THE FANS WANT TO SEE, AND IT WILL INDEED BRING IN NEW ONES. Let's face it,there are NO FANS of this sport under fourty years of age, outside of those that are actively in the game.That inevitably spells DOOM, forget all the other reasons...THIS IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE RECTIFIED IMMEDIATELY IMO.

Keep it real!

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by botster

Let's face it,there are NO FANS of this sport under fourty years of age, outside of those that are actively in the game.That inevitably spells DOOM, forget all the other reasons...THIS IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE RECTIFIED IMMEDIATELY IMO.Keep it real!

Dan, Dan, Dan, do you really believe that "Turf Harness", will bring in new blood and save this game ?

As for $5.00 winners, it never used to be that way at the Big_M, I've kashed many a nice number in the past.....The probelm as I have stated before, is, there are not enough of "fast and fit" horses to go around anymore...There simply is TOO MUCH racing going on "simultaneously", and none of the tracks want to give an inch on that, period, I think.... The same thing that is going to ruin Thoroughtbred racing is steadily closing in on the Trots as well....Perhaps a mite quicker too...Really, if a horse is racing 50 times a year, I think that is ridiculous...

Years ago there were seasonal "meets", and then they would close up shop....This is no longer true, as now, there are so many tracks vying for the "same" bucks, especially with simulcasting and ADW's....Something must change in order to save this game, the one that we love so much...But, I absolutely believe that "turf harness" is not the key, or even one of them....

P.S. I get double digit horses on a steady basis, just no so much at M1 anymore...

best,

[botster]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

Dan, Dan, Dan, do you really believe that "Turf Harness", will bring in new blood and save this game ?

As for $5.00 winners, it never used to be that way at the Big_M, I've kashed many a nice number in the past.....The probelm as I have stated before, is, there are not enough of "fast and fit" horses to go around anymore...There simply is TOO MUCH racing going on "simultaneously", and none of the tracks want to give an inch on that, period, I think.... The same thing that is going to ruin Thoroughtbred racing is steadily closing in on the Trots as well....Perhaps a mite quicker too...Really, if a horse is racing 50 times a year, I think that is ridiculous...

Years ago there were seasonal "meets", and then they would close up shop....This is no longer true, as now, there are so many tracks vying for the "same" bucks, especially with simulcasting and ADW's....Something must change in order to save this game, the one that we love so much...But, I absolutely believe that "turf harness" is not the key, or even one of them....

P.S. I get double digit horses on a steady basis, just no so much at M1 anymore...

best,

You are still living in the past LK.The meets being run the way they are is what it is.Your horses "fast and fit" theory is not a legit one IMO.Horses are raced like machines and when one is gone their will always be another to replace it.

Gamblers want action for their money and this game is B-O-R-I-N-G!!! Go to the smaller tracks and they are even more B-O-R-I-N-G! Gamblers want to see these kind of payoffs and type of finishes.If the miles go in 2:04, do you think the old, or new fans, will claim what a boring game this is...NO, not if they are cashing a $2,000 triple!!!

Make them distance races on the grass for the overnighters and watch the people come back to the track.Have you been to the M1 lately?, you could throw a balling ball down the grandstand level and not hit anything with a pulse!

I am tired of hearing there is too much racing, it's like complaining about the chemists in the game having an unfair advantage, both will not change.It's time to get onto something that will get people back to the track.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by botster

You are still living in the past LK.
!
I am tired of hearing there is too much racing, it's like complaining about the chemists in the game having an unfair advantage, both will not change.It's time to get onto something that will get people back to the track.

Tired of it or not, there IS TOO MUCH racing...these are the facts as they are, not mine, OURS

Yeah Dan, I guess you are right, I am living in the past.... Let's Bring on The Turf Hosses......Then I will quit, and there will be one more gone from the game....

Perhaps your handicapping methods are of old as well, or maybe the tracks you play are not up to your standards....There are plenty of bargains still to be had...And, they can be had without turf-harness....I don't think racing is boring at all....It is all just a point of view, I guess...

best,

[Sea Biscuit]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

Tired of it or not, there IS TOO MUCH racing...these are the facts as they are, not mine, OURS

Yeah Dan, I guess you are right, I am living in the past.... Let's Bring on The Turf Hosses......Then I will quit, and there will be one more gone from the game....

Perhaps your handicapping methods are of old as well, or maybe the tracks you play are not up to your standards....There are plenty of bargains still to be had...And, they can be had without turf-harness....I don't think racing is boring at all....It is all just a point of view, I guess...

best,

LK I will be right behind you in quitting this game, when they introduce turf harness with different distances. There will be more quitters to this game than they will bringing in new ones.

I suggest those you find this game boring, they should seriously consider the flats.

Sea Biscuit.