Unbettable Drivers

[Charles54]

Are There any drivers you consider unbettable? Despite being a fairly successful bettor their are certain drivers I have lost money on.

I am not suggesting that these drivers are incompetent. Some of them, like Kakaley and Morgan do seem to be too passive or perhaps poor decision makers. However, others may actually be quite good, but simply over-rated by the betting public. Jody Jamieson certainly falls into that category -- but, I don't bet him because he generates a negative return.

Anyway, these are the drivers I avoid simply because they lose me money.

Driver			Races	Win%	ROI
Simard, Richard		121	16.5%	$0.53
Kakaley, Matt		104	20.4%	$0.69
Mcclure, James E	105	22.8%	$0.74
Jamieson, Jody C	161	20.5%	$0.78
Zendt, Brian		121	24.7%	$0.79
Bouchard, Stephane	156	30.1%	$0.84
Parker, Billy  Jr	220	32.2%	$0.89
Morgan, Anthony		326	40.4%	$0.94
Hanners, Brad		277	42.7%	$0.94
Miller, Andy		146	35.6%	$0.96

Anyone else have such a list?

[Charles54]

And, so as not to be entirely negative, here is my list of "bet the farm" drivers. The drivers who have performed the most reliablily when I have bet them.

I think most of them are considered very good drivers, although, I personally do not think of Hudon or Moiseyev as among the elite. Of course, with a different selection method, someone else's list could be quite different.

Driver			Races	1st%	ROI
Hennessey, Wally	126	44.4%	$1.38
Pierce, Ron		174	36.4%	$1.44
Ouellette, Luc		238	39.0%	$1.51
Brennan, George		144	38.1%	$1.51
Jackson, Tom		122	40.9%	$1.54
Oosting, Michael	109	51.3%	$1.65
Miller, David		237	38.5%	$1.66
Sears, Brian		206	46.5%	$1.68
Moiseyev, Jack		116	31.0%	$1.70
Pavia, Joseph  Jr	237	39.2%	$1.71
Macdonell, Paul		185	35.6%	$1.71
Hudon, Phillip		111	28.8%	$1.78

Again, I am not suggesting these are the best drivers. The certainly are not profitable if you bet on them every race. The are just the drivers who happen to do well on my individual picks -- your mileage may vary.

[Ray2000]

Here's what I have for 2010 thru Oct, minimum 500 drives
Only cross checked a few, we're pretty close ,Charles

Top 25
driver.................drives.....ROI%
Napolitano, Anthony J.....762.....14%
Noble, Dan................779.....10%
Mosher, Gary D............549.....10%
Oliver, Keith R...........626.....9%
Merton, Gregory...........940.....8%
Braden, Corey.............504.....3%
Flanigen, Jack...........1180.....2%
Holland, Brent...........1113.....1%
Henry, Trevor S..........1221.....1%
Wengerd, John D..........1059.....0%
Kramer, Bradley W........1066.....-1%
Gray, Shawn...............645.....-1%
Gingras, Yannick.........2047.....-2%
Farrington, Richard L.....673.....-3%
Cushing, Ron..............566.....-4%
Whelan, Michael W.........915.....-4%
Plante, Roger Jr.........940.....-6%
Gendron, Stephane.........743.....-6%
Wright, Darrell Lee.......640.....-6%
Macdonald, Mark J........2023.....-7%
Carlson, Eric G..........1458.....-7%
Zeron, Scott R...........1978.....-8%
Sutton, Joshua...........1084.....-8%
Baillargeon, Mario J.....1224.....-9%
Hennessey, Wally..........779.....-9%


Bottom 25
Pouliot, Stephane.........516.....-38%
Anderson, Ryan............629.....-38%
Goodell, Eric............1286.....-38%
Forte, Michael A.........1188.....-38%
Macdonell, Paul..........1096.....-39%
Di Benedetto, Kyle.......1256.....-39%
Clements, Dan.............640.....-39%
Svendsen, Lemoyne.........702.....-40%
Rankin, Donald C Jr.......711.....-40%
Moen, Lindsay.............756.....-40%
Tharps, Randy.............858.....-40%
Sparling, Robert L........654.....-40%
Buter, Tyler L............688.....-40%
Baggitt, Jack Jr.........795.....-41%
Hiteman, Dale.............780.....-41%
Davis, Eddie Jr..........727.....-41%
Saftic, Michael J........1045.....-42%
Mapes, Joey...............718.....-42%
Jackson, Tom..............676.....-44%
Lachance, Patrick D.......759.....-44%
Wall, David W.............577.....-44%
Ranger, Bruce W...........870.....-44%
Ouellette, Luc R.........1080.....-45%
Swartz, Russell E.........504.....-47%
Williams, Mark W..........521.....-52%

All with 100 min drives attached

[spicytomato]

thanks fellas

I usually look for driver / trainer connections
Many times this shortens the navigation thru those pps for me

Do you have any info like this I can look at?

I do not know how to look these up
Usually just keep track and notes on paper

thanks again

[Not4Love]

I wonder where Cory Callahan would rank? I think he is a little over-rated.

[Ray2000]

Spicy

I don't have the Tr/Dr at my fingertips but TrackMaster StatsMaster page has them. Some track websites have a link to them for free. ie The Meadows, The Big M and others?

Also The free programs for Woodbine/Mohawk list the combos for each race, for instance R10 tonite.

Race 10: Driver/Trainer Combination
Horse # Driver Trainer Starts Win % R.O.I.
1 J Jamieson J Gillis 163 21% $1.92
2 Ri Zeron B Eckenstein 5 60% $3.88
3 L Ouellette R Young 6 33% $4.28
4 S Allard R Allard 111 15% $1.47
5 Ra Waples B Wallace 8 0% $0.00
6 P Macdonell D Lagace 26 23% $3.37
7 S Filion J Smith Jr 5 0% $0.00
8 M Baillargeon B Baillargeon 532 16% $1.60
9 C Christoforou L Eftimiadis 2 0% $0.00


not4love


Callahan, Corey... 2247 starts -28% ROI
-22% is average for 500+starters

[The Bit]

Kakaley seems inconsistent in his decisions in my opinion. I follow Chester pretty close and he makes some great decisions/drives but he also makes some pretty poor ones or atleast headscratchers. Sitting in with the 4 hole with 4/5 shots but than he will makes two moves with a horse that is 10-1.

He seems to be overly agressive with anything he drives for the Burkes and sometimes too passive when he drives decent horses for lesser trainers.

[spicytomato]

Ty Ray

I have found some tracks have handicapping info

And then the others do not

Harness in my view pays well and is a bit easier to handicap
than the tbreds - I've learned a lil of both and make a few on both


Will leave the puppies to them in the know
Can't fit another statistic in my head or it will explode already

[baconswitchfarm]

Originally Posted by Not4Love

I wonder where Cory Callahan would rank? I think he is a little ov
er-rated.

Corey is very overrated. I actually bet horses quite a bit if he is first time off them , after driving them a bunch of times. I don't need a specific guy getting on them , just any functioning driver.

[wilderness]

Some reinsmen are playable on "specific gaits or genders", however I kinda think accumulating stats on such wouldn't be worth the few plays.

Some horses also react kindly to a their first time reinsman that's a south paw.

[Ray2000]

Originally Posted by wilderness

Some horses also react kindly to a their first time reinsman that's a south paw.

or to a "rising star"

The lefty I can see or the light finger vs heavy hand type,

but there must be some kind of unseen equine/human connection that occurs with certain drivers when they start their careers. How else could you explain the quick success of some in-experienced guys who don't get the best horses in the races? Case, Mcnair, Kakaley, Sears when he was a pup, I'm sure others here could name more.


.

[wilderness]

Originally Posted by Ray2000

but there must be some kind of unseen equine/human connection that occurs with certain drivers when they start their careers. How else could you explain the quick success of some in-experienced guys who don't get the best horses in the races?

Ray,
Many horsemen (i. e., drivers) have expressed it as a "born with gift", either you have the ability or you don't.
The quickness of mind, which allows the reinsman to perceive and adapt in a timely manner.

As to the four names you provided?

The golden boy of that group is Brain Sears, and even his success did not culminate until he reached the Meadowlands (and on his 2nd try).
Brain's grandfather was Gene Sears, whom provided many, many horsemen with their early beginnings. Surely some of Gene's skills and acquired practices are ingrained in the genealogy of son-Jay and grandson-Brain?

Even John Campbell's father and grandfather were successful horsemen with their first priority being to remain close to home and family.

There have been many sons and grandsons of horsemen whom simply do not approach the skills of their antecedents. Whether their lack of success was a result of failing to apply themselves or they simply didn't have "the gene" is unknown.

Then there have been others, such as George Brennan, whom come from outside the community.

[botster]

Drivers are definitely born with this gift and it cannot be learned.I had a debate about this with that gentleman from Northfield years ago, who handicapped "on air" at that track.

George Brennan is a great all around horseman, though he will never be recognized as one.I believe he has cousins, of whom he has proceeded that were active in the game for quite some time.Joe Ricco j.r, a longtime New York based trainer/ driver is related to him in some fashion.

Any learning that happens could only be done very early on in their career as they tour the different size ovals a few times.Remember too, that many of these drivers are excellent horsman in general,especially the guys that are now in their 40's,50's and 60's.

[pandy]

Did anyone watch Yonkers races Monday night? Jason Bartlett had one of the best night's I've seen this year, 5 winners including 4 longshots from outside posts at average odds of 14-1, and not one win was an easy wire to wire win. His driving was amazing, he looked like Herve Filion in his prime, brilliant.

[my_nameaintearl]

Originally Posted by baconswitchfarm

Corey is very overrated. I actually bet horses quite a bit if he is first time off them , after driving them a bunch of times. I don't need a specific guy getting on them , just any functioning driver.

I dont think he is overrated but after he got hurt last year he hasnt been the same to me