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Old 04-05-2017, 12:33 PM   #406
Spalding No!
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Originally Posted by MargieRose View Post
How is knowingly passing on the propensity for defective genes considered to be "better breeding?"
Ironically, the sires of Arrogate and California Chrome are closely related.

Unbridled's Song's and Lucky Pulpit's respective dams are 3/4 sisters.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:53 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Spalding No! View Post
Ironically, the sires of Arrogate and California Chrome are closely related.

Unbridled's Song's and Lucky Pulpit's respective dams are 3/4 sisters.
The unsoundness issues in UBS come from Unbridled though.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:29 PM   #408
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The unsoundness issues in UBS come from Unbridled though.
Yeah, it was just an interesting coincidence. But I wouldn't count the Pulpit line as a source of soundness, either.

And yet, the offspring of Tapit--who has both Pulpit and Unbridled in his pedigree and who himself made all of 6 starts--don't seem to be particularly plagued with soundness problems.

Of course, a lot of these things depend on who's training them.
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:26 PM   #409
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It sure is interesting that you chose that handle, because your writing is so completely opposite from the real Haskin, it's almost shocking to read.

What "dog" are you talking about? His challenger for HOY was Smarty Jones, who he never met, and in the Classic, he beat some decent horses, none of which I remember as being the best yet only 2-37 "dog."


Uh, we recently went over this:


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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
Are you speaking of the same Ghostzapper who went two turns exactly twice in his life? When one of those was a 4-horse field in the Monmouth slop?


Arrogate has already topped as many foes this year as Ghostzapper did in his entire Horse-of-the-Year campaign.

... the HOY campaign which kicked-off in July vs. Aggadan (never won stakes at all outside of Maryland-breds) and Unforgettable Max (only career stakes win was in a $54K affair at Delaware Park).

... the HOY campaign which continued against Presidential Affair (grade 3 winner on best days) and the great Zoffinger (ran 30 times after meeting Ghostzapper and lost all 30 of them to finish up 2-for-37)


There's half of Ghostzapper's HOY campaign right there!

The easy pace scenario in the BC Classic was just icing on the cake.



Arrogate could stop right now and tower over anything Ghostzapper ever legitimately did.


In far too many circles those voting for HOY just pause and consider whoever won the Gr. I Woodward and then submit their vote according to whichever name topped the list.



However I will agree that it is too soon to rate Arrogate with what are truly the all-time greats. He's still just a new 4yo though, so improvement isn't out of the question.
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:30 PM   #410
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You must be the Uruguayan Haskin. Arrogate's would be 4-race campaign started in January...not July.

I'm certainly not about to sing the praises of Ghostzapper, but let's be fair. The horse suffered from all sorts of soundness problems (quarter cracks, bruised feet, fractured sesamoids). Despite that, his owner pledged to bring him back as a 5yo after his streamlined BC Classic win...he held up for one start. Will Arrogate make an appearance at 5? Perhaps if they can get another Pegasus Cup together for 2018.


Again, this is not about talent. Ghostzapper and Arrogate were heads and tails above their competition for the most part. That doesn't justify keeping them in the barn. Look how that worked out for Jack Woltz.

What have you been smoking?


I was clearly suggesting a solution to the riddle presented by someone else in an attempt to help you to understand whatever he/she wrote.

My solution fit the parameters (offered by a third party) you questioned quite well.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:00 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
What have you been smoking?
I was clearly suggesting a solution to the riddle presented by someone else in an attempt to help you to understand whatever he/she wrote.
Thanks for helping me "understand", but my confusion was supposed to be sarcastic. The original contention was that Arrogate's 4-race campaign is legit. When I challenged this, the contention instead became his campaign is irrelevant because the horse is an uber-talent.

Thus, the goal posts had changed. I don't think anyone involved in the discussion at the time was questioning Arrogate's talent.

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My solution fit the parameters (offered by a third party) you questioned quite well.
I understand you are trying to stake your claim as the board sage or whatever, but these oblique attempts to mystify your posts cut no ice.

If your "solution" is the example of Ghostzapper, it is a weak one for the reasons already stated. Ghostzapper had all sorts of setbacks throughout his career as opposed to one that kept him from racing as a juvenile. At no point in his career did he campaign for a full season (i.e., a 12 month stretch) no matter where you arbitrarily place the starting date.

And Ghostzapper's owner went on record saying he wanted to showcase the horse for the public precisely because the horse was an uber-talent.

"I thought it would be good for the public to see him run another year," Stronach said. "Money-wise, it doesn't make any sense, because he would have commanded a pretty good stud fee. We had had a lot of inquiries from people who were interested in breeding to him. We hope he stays healthy and gives the public another great year."

That the horse's physical condition didn't oblige doesn't mean the intent wasn't real.

So actually, the example of Ghostzapper is the exact opposite of what is likely to transpire with Arrogate.

Last edited by Spalding No!; 04-05-2017 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:23 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by Spalding No! View Post

Thus, the goal posts had changed.

... says the person who at some point switched from "irony" (which he clearly does not understand) to "interesting coincidence".


And the fact that you were "at a loss to find" a recent champion whose claim to fame was a weak, 4-race campaign suggests that there wasn't too much "sarcasm" involved in your quest.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:25 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by Fager Fan View Post
It sure is interesting that you chose that handle, because your writing is so completely opposite from the real Haskin, it's almost shocking to read.
Yeah, I know... when someone like me is working only with factual reality, a fiction writer like Haskin can't measure up.
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:49 AM   #414
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... says the person who at some point switched from "irony" (which he clearly does not understand) to "interesting coincidence".
Nice, now you're going to troll some of my other posts not directed at you to spew some more nonsense? Reeks of desperation.

Well, since you brought it up...it was ironic that the respective sires of Arrogate and California Chrome are closely related, because the contention was that one horse had better breeding than the other.

Personally I never made that contention, but I still found it to be an "interesting coincidence" that the two top racehorses from last year had such close family ties.

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And the fact that you were "at a loss to find" a recent champion whose claim to fame was a weak, 4-race campaign suggests that there wasn't too much "sarcasm" involved in your quest.
So you are backing up the contention that Arrogate's 4-race campaign fits with "modern thoroughbreds in the top class the past few decades" by bringing up a single horse from 13 years ago? Brilliant!

This episode of "Graspin' With Haskin" has been wafer thin. You should have just stayed retired...
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:28 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by Spalding No! View Post
Nice, now you're going to troll some of my other posts not directed at you to spew some more nonsense? Reeks of desperation.

Well, since you brought it up...it was ironic that the respective sires of Arrogate and California Chrome are closely related, because the contention was that one horse had better breeding than the other.

Personally I never made that contention, but I still found it to be an "interesting coincidence" that the two top racehorses from last year had such close family ties.


So you are backing up the contention that Arrogate's 4-race campaign fits with "modern thoroughbreds in the top class the past few decades" by bringing up a single horse from 13 years ago? Brilliant!

This episode of "Graspin' With Haskin" has been wafer thin. You should have just stayed retired...

You should really invest in a dictionary, and look up "irony", for you still have yet to hint at any understanding of the term.


And my single horse from 13 years ago still tops your own admitted inability to find any!


Keep trying though, somebody here might recognize something intelligible in your efforts.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:59 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
You should really invest in a dictionary, and look up "irony", for you still have yet to hint at any understanding of the term.

And my single horse from 13 years ago still tops your own admitted inability to find any!

Keep trying though, somebody here might recognize something intelligible in your efforts.
Pretty pathetic, Alanis. Just swallow that jagged little pill and admit that your career is over.

Now run along and wash off that slime in your hair. I will no longer be your writing partner in this sad comeback attempt.
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