Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Off Topic > Off Topic - General


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 04-16-2017, 09:42 PM   #736
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 45,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
Simply stated, Bertrand Russell was not a Christian because he couldn't bring himself to believe that there is a Hell.
Or more accurately...he couldn't bring himself to believe that he was a sinner fully worthy to suffer the pains of hell for all eternity. Nearly everyone believes he or she is too good for hell. It's only others who may be worthy.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline  
Old 04-16-2017, 09:56 PM   #737
Actor
Librocubicularist
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
Or more accurately...he couldn't bring himself to believe that he was a sinner fully worthy to suffer the pains of hell for all eternity. Nearly everyone believes he or she is too good for hell. It's only others who may be worthy.
Have you read Russell's opus?
__________________
Sapere aude
Actor is offline  
Old 04-16-2017, 10:00 PM   #738
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 45,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
Have you read Russell's opus?
I have read lengthy excerpts from Russell. He'd just another lost, blind soul groping in the dark.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline  
Old 04-16-2017, 10:30 PM   #739
Actor
Librocubicularist
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
Nearly everyone believes he or she is too good for hell. It's only others who may be worthy.
What makes one worthy of hell?
__________________
Sapere aude
Actor is offline  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:13 PM   #740
Hank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
What makes one worthy of hell?
I'll go way out on a limb, and say not holding religious beliefs identical to Boxcar's.
Hank is offline  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:17 PM   #741
thaskalos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 26,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
What makes one worthy of hell?
The fact that Adam and Eve ate an apple eons ago.
thaskalos is offline  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:44 AM   #742
Actor
Librocubicularist
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,345


__________________
Sapere aude

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 04-17-2017 at 02:07 PM.
Actor is offline  
Old 04-17-2017, 08:52 AM   #743
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 45,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
What makes one worthy of hell?
All a person's sins.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline  
Old 04-17-2017, 08:53 AM   #744
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 45,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
The fact that Adam and Eve ate an apple eons ago.
Oh...so you're another sinless human being, heh?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline  
Old 04-17-2017, 08:55 AM   #745
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 45,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
I'll go way out on a limb, and say not holding religious beliefs identical to Boxcar's.
Ahh...so you were the big crash I heard....
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline  
Old 04-17-2017, 01:57 PM   #746
Actor
Librocubicularist
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
All a person's sins.
One more chance. Define sin.
__________________
Sapere aude
Actor is offline  
Old 04-17-2017, 02:12 PM   #747
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 79,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
Before I answer...explain, please, why are "all the instances in the OT a stretch and a half"? Would you have a reasonable, viable, logical explanation for each instance or do you just conveniently lump them altogether and summarily dismiss them in favor of some fanciful interpretation of the We's and Us's, etc?
There is no explanation of the us's or our's that appear in the OT...you are going to assume they refer to the Trinity?

Maybe there are multiple Gods and the Jews and Christians and Muslims are getting it all wrong...

Where exactly is it explicitly stated that the multiple instances of "us" and "our" refer to the Holy Trinity in the OT? Or is this simply some assumption to make it fit with the NT?

Don't look to me for answers. I'm the ignorant sinner/devil in this thread, remember?

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 04-17-2017 at 02:14 PM.
PaceAdvantage is online now  
Old 04-17-2017, 05:18 PM   #748
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 45,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
There is no explanation of the us's or our's that appear in the OT...you are going to assume they refer to the Trinity?

Maybe there are multiple Gods and the Jews and Christians and Muslims are getting it all wrong...

Where exactly is it explicitly stated that the multiple instances of "us" and "our" refer to the Holy Trinity in the OT? Or is this simply some assumption to make it fit with the NT?

Don't look to me for answers. I'm the ignorant sinner/devil in this thread, remember?
If by your own admission you're so spiritually ignorant, then how can you be so dogmatic that the monotheistic godhead of the OT cannot consist of multiple persons? How can you say with any certainty "not by a stretch and a half"? An alternative explanation for the We's and Us's is polytheism but this interpretation cannot be true, given the OT text of Deut 6:4. And this isn't the only passage that clearly refutes polytheism -- not by 2-1/2 stretches! See also Deut 4:35-36, 5:6; Isa 44:6,8;45; Jer 10:10-11. So...now we're left with only one other viable explanation: There is one God in Multiple Persons. I will follow in my Master's steps since there has never been a spiritual teacher his equal, nor will there ever be. I will leave you to ponder questions that he presented to his detractors about his own identity.

Matt 22:41-46
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question,42 saying, "What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, "The son of David." 43 He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying,

44 'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Until I put Thine enemies beneath Thy feet"'?


45 "If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his son?" 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.
NASB

The bolded passage to which Jesus alluded is found in Ps 110:1 Jesus presented the Pharisees with quite a dilemma to which they could not answer without putting themselves in a very poor light. But allow me to lay out the problem for you since you are ignorant of the scriptures. Psalm 110 was penned by King David (the operative term here being "King"). As king of Israel, David answered to no other earthly ruler. He answered to no earthly"lord" since he was "lord" over Israel -- David was God's appointed and anointed King who replaced King Saul! Now, perhaps you can begin to understand the very sharp and pointed questions Jesus asked in vv. 43 and 45. Who was David's first Lord and second Lord? Moreover, David used two different names for "Lord" in verse 1 of this psalm. The first Lord is "Yahweh" and the second Lord (unto my Lord) is "la-Adoniy".

Further, Yaweh is telling Adoniy to sit at His right hand. To sit where? To sit on his throne (that is to say, the Davidic throne) at the right hand of Yahweh -- the highest possible place of honor was to st at the right hand of the king.

So...how can Jesus be the Son of David when it is Adoniy who will occupy the Davidic throne forever and ever? This the dilemma the Pharisees faced. Will you, too, be as silent as they were?

Also, in closing, I would refer you to post 19844 in the old Religious thread wherein an abundance of OT scripture is cited for the Trinitarian doctrine.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru

Last edited by boxcar; 04-17-2017 at 05:19 PM.
boxcar is offline  
Old 04-17-2017, 05:43 PM   #749
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 79,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
If by your own admission you're so spiritually ignorant, then how can you be so dogmatic that the monotheistic godhead of the OT cannot consist of multiple persons?
Because then, it's not by definition monotheistic.

And btw, are you telling me all those times Jews refer to God as Adonai, they are unwittingly talking about Jesus?

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 04-17-2017 at 05:44 PM.
PaceAdvantage is online now  
Old 04-17-2017, 06:03 PM   #750
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 45,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
Because then, it's not by definition monotheistic.

And btw, are you telling me all those times Jews refer to God as Adonai, they are unwittingly talking about Jesus?
Of course, it is. The bible everywhere teaches there is only ONE God; yet at the same time this one God is in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit -- Three Persons in ONE godhead. Or another way to understand this is ONE divine essence in three persons or three personalities.

And, no, I'm not saying that the Jews always understood every instance of Adoniy in the OT as referring to Jesus or even the Messiah. But...that is certainly how Jesus understood and interpreted the instance in Ps 110:1.

There is only one answer to Jesus' questions in Matthew 22. The Jews did rightly understand that the Christ (the Messiah) would descend from David's line, hence they understood that the Messiah would be the Son of David. (All this is made clear in the Davidic Covenant.) But what they did not understand is that this Son of David would also be the Son of God!

Ps 2:7-9
7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord:
He said to Me, 'Thou art My Son,
Today I have begotten Thee.
8 'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Thine inheritance,
And the very ends of the earth as Thy possession.
9 'Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron,
Thou shalt shatter them like earthenware.'"

NASB
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline  
Closed Thread




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2022 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.