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07-31-2020, 11:08 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 1,726
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Have there ever been any really good books done on the distance & surface of a race?
Have there ever been any really good books done on the distance and surface of a race? Most of the studies I've seen treat distance secondarily.
Thanks in advance if you reply and I'm a little slow in acknowledging.
Bill C
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08-01-2020, 02:58 AM
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#2
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Sartin Methodology Fan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 328
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I painstakingly compile distance specific stats, as they really help me with handicapping, way better than any other method I have tried. I have done it so far for the turf routes at Del Mar for their summer season. I get jockey/trainer, sire/broodmare combination, post position, ML and final odds, lay-off data, and running styles. You'd be surprised what you unearth. Some jockeys are crazy-good with certain distances and surfaces.
Here is an example after 20 races so far from the Del Mar meet with the 8.0F turf races:
__________________
"And there they go! It's Toupée going on ahead, Long Underwear has fallen behind, Toothpaste is being squeezed out on the rail as Banana joins the bunch, and Cabbage is trailing by a head."
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08-01-2020, 09:17 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 1,726
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Hi PP,
Thanks for your reply and your information.
Best,
Bill C
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08-01-2020, 10:33 AM
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#4
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,815
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Good question.
A couple of weeks ago, Andy Serling and Tom Amos were talking about the differences between a 9 furlong race at Toga as opposed to Belmont, 1 turn vs 2 turns. Another topic Andy has talked about a lot is turn backs.
We should start a thread in the Handicapper's Corner and talk about this topic, and one about surface. I remember someone posting about surface handicapping a while ago - maybe a search here for "surface handicapping" will turn up something....good topics!
I will use my db to check things out, as best I can, and I am sure others will join in.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Last edited by Tom; 08-01-2020 at 10:37 AM.
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08-07-2020, 11:15 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,666
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The difference between many t-bred distances is not real estate, or even a horse's innate ability to cover the specified furlongs at an individualized rate of travel. T-breds do not perform in vacuums, and the differences are field composition as relates to running style, gate skills, race-flow, and trips.
As I've said lots of times on the show, the real difference between 5 1/2 and 6 furlong races is NOT 110 yards.
BTW, on a deeper level, it's the commonly shared (mis?)perceptions amongst horsemen concerning distance that, in my opinion, gives races of various distances such a dissimilar look.
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08-07-2020, 11:31 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 1,726
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply and your information.
Best,
Bill C
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08-07-2020, 11:32 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 1,726
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Hi mountainman,
Thanks for your reply and your information.
Best,
Bill C
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08-08-2020, 12:23 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
BTW, on a deeper level, it's the commonly shared (mis?)perceptions amongst horsemen concerning distance that, in my opinion, gives races of various distances such a dissimilar look.
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I could not agree more. There are times when I scratch my head at some of the placements that trainers make when it is crystal clear what distance the horse needs.
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