Any predictions for Greece?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This is pathetic.

No matter how painful a Grexit would have been in the short term, that's what they should have done over these asset sales. They should have run the domestic economy on their own currency, dealt with the hyperinflation in the short term, used the Euro or dollar for international trade, and built from a sound base. Now, they are just as buried in debt as before except they have to sell off more of the country for pennies on the dollar to international vultures. It's even money some fund run by George Soros is already picking through the carcass. The name of the fund is probably Triple6 Investments or Beelzebub Limited.

The Euro acts as a gold standard for the Greeks. You should support their actions. Buried in debt? It's almost as if you're suggesting they should have printed their way out of the problem.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This is pathetic.

No matter how painful a Grexit would have been in the short term, that's what they should have done over these asset sales. They should have run the domestic economy on their own currency, dealt with the hyperinflation in the short term, used the Euro or dollar for international trade, and built from a sound base. Now, they are just as buried in debt as before except they have to sell off more of the country for pennies on the dollar to international vultures. It's even money some fund run by George Soros is already picking through the carcass. The name of the fund is probably Triple6 Investments or Beelzebub Limited.

Last time I have checked, Greece was still an independent country, whose citizens have the right to decide about their future.

Having said this, I do not think that statements like: They should have ... make much sense.

They are deciding for themselves and couldas shouldas wouldas have absolutely nothing to add to the big picture, which reflects the democratic decisions of a whole nation.

Whether or not They will remain in the EU and the Euro, or go back to drachma is primary their decision and based on what I know, the only political party favouring something like this, is the Communist Party of Greece, which represents a very tiny chunk of the whole population, all the others (more than 95% of the votes) want to remain to the EURO.

I am not trying to say that there were no mistakes in the decisions and acts of Greece and the Greeks but what matters now, is clearly not some consultation about what they should have done differently, but finding the way to relief the crisis and return to the normal rhythms of the economy and social life.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

.... They are deciding for themselves and couldas shouldas wouldas have absolutely nothing to add to the big picture, which reflects the democratic decisions of a whole nation....

If you're trying to make a case for the elected officials following the will of the people, I don't believe you're paying attention. The politicians in Greece, like those in the U.S., hardly represent the people - and only on paper.

Rumors now that the Troika have "troops on the ground" in the sense that their flunkies are onsite at Greek banks to transfer ALL assets to the ECB when the Greek parliament votes that in later today as part of the bailout "agreement".

The death of a sovereign republic, which ironically is the birthplace of democracy, is playing out right before our eyes. Not just a tragedy for Greece, but for all republics. A pivotal point in the history of the world....

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

Last time I have checked, Greece was still an independent country, whose citizens have the right to decide about their future.

Having said this, I do not think that statements like: They should have ... make much sense.

They are deciding for themselves and couldas shouldas wouldas have absolutely nothing to add to the big picture, which reflects the democratic decisions of a whole nation.

Whether or not They will remain in the EU and the Euro, or go back to drachma is primary their decision and based on what I know, the only political party favouring something like this, is the Communist Party of Greece, which represents a very tiny chunk of the whole population, all the others (more than 95% of the votes) want to remain to the EURO.

I am not trying to say that there were no mistakes in the decisions and acts of Greece and the Greeks but what matters now, is clearly not some consultation about what they should have done differently, but finding the way to relief the crisis and return to the normal rhythms of the economy and social life.

The Greeks can do whatever they want. So far they haven't done much right or they wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. I am simply an impartial observer. If I was dictator, I would abandon the Euro, cope with the negative short term implications, start over and rebuild the economy on a sound basis, make overtures to repay some of the debt 10-20 years from now to get back in the good graces of Europe, and play it by ear. I would not sell or hand over assets to the vultures no matter what. Greece made its own bed to a large extent, but it is about to get raped and pillaged before your very eyes. I hate printing money, but it's a better option than getting raped.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

I am not trying to say that there were no mistakes in the decisions and acts of Greece and the Greeks but what matters now, is clearly not some consultation about what they should have done differently, but finding the way to relief the crisis and return to the normal rhythms of the economy and social life.

There are families throughout the world who are crushed under the burden of debt...and would like nothing better than to be able to get a "fresh start" at life. Alas...their creditors remain unforgiving, and the families remain "crushed".

Whether you are a family or a country...your past indiscretions haunt you into the present.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I hate printing money, but it's a better option than getting raped.

An honest man.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

There are families throughout the world who are crushed under the burden of debt...and would like nothing better than to be able to get a "fresh start" at life. Alas...their creditors remain unforgiving, and the families remain "crushed".

Whether you are a family or a country...your past indiscretions haunt you into the present.

You are oversimplifying the situation.. Here we are not taking about an individual family but a whole nation, which is a completely different case...

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

You are oversimplifying the situation.. Here we are not taking about an individual family but a whole nation, which is a completely different case...

Whether you are a country, or an individual...you need credit, or you are forced to operate on cash. And if you have no credit, and no cash...then your survival prospects are bleak indeed. I have close relatives there, and I worry about them constantly...but I don't see a bright side to this scenario. Either Greece stays in the EU and starves later...or they leave the EU, and starve now.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Whether you are a country, or an individual...you need credit, or you are forced to operate on cash. And if you have no credit, and no cash...then your survival prospects are bleak indeed. I have close relatives there, and I worry about them constantly...but I don't see a bright side to this scenario. Either Greece stays in the EU and starves later...or they leave the EU, and starve now.

An individual has a very limited life span to pay back, while a country has infinite time to do so.

[DJofSD]

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-33480291

Protests turning violent.

[thaskalos]

Surprise, surprise...

[DeltaLover]

The Vice President of the left government of SYRIZA mr. DRAGASAKIS thanks the President of United States for his support..

http://wbponline.com/Articles/View/5...lks-dragasakis


The United States government had a lion's share in the successful outcome of the Greek debt negotiations, Greek Deputy Prime Minister Yannis Dragasakis said on Wednesday.

US Support Was Essential In Greek Debt Talks: Dragasakis

Athens - The recently reached agreement between Greece and its lenders might never have become a reality had it not been for Washington's support, according to Greek Deputy Prime Minister Yannis Dragasakis.

"I have to publicly thank the US government and Mr. (President Barack) Obama as without their help and persistence that the deal has to include the debt issue and development horizon we might have not succeeded," he said.

As the threat of the so-called Grexit grew, US officials urged their European counterparts to consider debt restructuring. The same view was adopted by the International Monetary Fund.

The IMF has most recently contributed to the persisting tensions between Greece and its creditors, releasing a study that showed that Greece needs much bigger debt relief than euro zone partners have been prepared to admit. Otherwise, there will have to be "deep upfront haircuts" on existing loans, the study added.

The government of Alexis Tsipras will hold a crucial vote in parliament on reform measures needed to unlock the fund in the third bailout package, with a midnight deadline on Wednesday. Tsipras said in an interview on Tuesday that the deal he reached with the creditors is harsh but needed to keep the country in the euro.

- See more at: http://wbponline.com/Articles/View/5....Pd6UIhgk.dpuf

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

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The Vice President of the left government of SYRIZA mr. DRAGASAKIS thanks the President of United States for his support..

US Support Was Essential In Greek Debt Talks: Dragasakis


"I have to publicly thank the US government and Mr. (President Barack) Obama as without their help and persistence that the deal has to include the debt issue and development horizon we might have not succeeded," he said.

The President must have given them one of our printing presses...

[DeltaLover]

PRESIDENT OBAMA: NO MORE AUSTERITY FOR GREECE

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[JustRalph]

Now Obama is loaning and giving away other countries money ?