Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 05-14-2018, 06:18 AM   #1
Fager Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,672
Rep Power: 14 Fager Fan has a spectacular aura aboutFager Fan has a spectacular aura about
Corporate Horse Racing

This Derby really emphasized the rise of corporate racing. There were no warm fuzzies about the connections of the winner. Congrats on owning that winning leg of Justify! Not that this was the first time - congrats for owning the winning stifle of Always Dreaming! I know some of these winning owners and it was a forced congrats that I gave them, because it feels bought instead of earned.

Then we have Chad Brown with 150 2-year-olds up at Saratoga. 150. Not an exaggeration. Anyone think he's really the trainer of all these horses instead of the corporate head who pays a slew of trainers?

Trainers at NYRA complain of the power of Brown and Pletcher at the entry box, and on the West coast of power of Baffert. Other trainers can't get their horses in, while they see races written to accommodate these guys.

The "normal" or small trainer or new trainers have never had it so hard.

The BC is all about collecting huge sums from racing and giving it back to a small group of the elite.

I've been losing my passion for the sport for a long time, and the above is making me lose what's left. One more Eclipse ceremony could do it.
Fager Fan is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-14-2018, 07:05 AM   #2
lamboguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 18,086
Rep Power: 30 lamboguy will become famous soon enoughlamboguy will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan View Post
This Derby really emphasized the rise of corporate racing. There were no warm fuzzies about the connections of the winner. Congrats on owning that winning leg of Justify! Not that this was the first time - congrats for owning the winning stifle of Always Dreaming! I know some of these winning owners and it was a forced congrats that I gave them, because it feels bought instead of earned.

Then we have Chad Brown with 150 2-year-olds up at Saratoga. 150. Not an exaggeration. Anyone think he's really the trainer of all these horses instead of the corporate head who pays a slew of trainers?

Trainers at NYRA complain of the power of Brown and Pletcher at the entry box, and on the West coast of power of Baffert. Other trainers can't get their horses in, while they see races written to accommodate these guys.

The "normal" or small trainer or new trainers have never had it so hard.

The BC is all about collecting huge sums from racing and giving it back to a small group of the elite.

I've been losing my passion for the sport for a long time, and the above is making me lose what's left. One more Eclipse ceremony could do it.
every other sport seems to feel the need to limit roster's, racing obviously doesn't
lamboguy is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-14-2018, 12:47 PM   #3
onefast99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,777
Rep Power: 16 onefast99 will become famous soon enough
Same thing at Monmouth Park Navarro is catered to!
__________________
Monmouth Park...keep racing in NJ!
onefast99 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-14-2018, 03:36 PM   #4
Tom
Registered User
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 84,140
Rep Power: 109 Tom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to behold
"Dear Fager Fan,

We are sorry to inform you that as a 10% owner in Justify, it is YOUR rear leg that is lame after the Derby.
Your share of the purse will be reduced accordingly."
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-14-2018, 03:52 PM   #5
jay68802
Registered User
 
jay68802's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 6,306
Rep Power: 21 jay68802 is a glorious beacon of lightjay68802 is a glorious beacon of lightjay68802 is a glorious beacon of lightjay68802 is a glorious beacon of lightjay68802 is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
"Dear Fager Fan,

We are sorry to inform you that as a 10% owner in Justify, it is YOUR rear leg that is lame after the Derby.
Your share of the purse will be reduced accordingly."
PS: You will also be charge a higher % of the vet bills.


Have a nice day!
jay68802 is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 04:51 AM   #6
Fager Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,672
Rep Power: 14 Fager Fan has a spectacular aura aboutFager Fan has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
"Dear Fager Fan,

We are sorry to inform you that as a 10% owner in Justify, it is YOUR rear leg that is lame after the Derby.
Your share of the purse will be reduced accordingly."
Fager Fan is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 08:09 AM   #7
Big Peps
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 125
Rep Power: 0 Big Peps is an unknown quantity at this point
Tend to agree, you are seeing it more and more, people and organizations buying into horses that have already proven to be on the Derby Trail and Oaks trail for that matter.

There are the wealthy owners that are teaming up and doing this more and more, I couldn't even tell you the real owner of Justify actually is or at least the majority owner. wasn't exagerrator bought and sold, and split into ownership pieces like 3-4 times?

Then you have the syndicates who are buying into proven horses that are on the derby trail and Oaks trail and then publicly going out there and selling the experience of how exciting it is to be part of the process and "YOU TOO COULD BE PART OF THIS for as little as 1%" Good luck with that. All I see is the heads of these organizations basking in the limelight and going along for the ride. The shareholders have zero say and I get it but they aren't putting their own money up just using others and strutting around as if they are the brainchild. Really weird actually, seems strange to me.

In addition, now we have all these bloodstock people hanging around for the life of the horse basking in the glory, funny how their misses never get advertised or pointed out, the seven figure European horse that flops, etc etc.

It all a circus and a bunch of social media BS. Kind of sad really. Same 4-5 trainers as well. Brad Cox is next or already is... ( Pletcher, Baffert, Brown, O'Neil) How long do you think we will see the four Pletcher horses campaigning? Most all seem to disappear shortly after their 3 year old season? ODD

I think Mick Ruis is over his head trying to train a triple crown horse but at least it's his $, his horse and you know where you are at. Now you can't even figure out the ownership group for most of these horses. You just aren't seeing the smaller trainer very much at all with a special horse at the HUGE races anymore, granted they were always 1 or 2 of 12 in a race but those horses are getting bought as soon as they show ability

Love the game and the player... this new movement? hate, hate hate, hate it. Partners in racing use to be 2-3 buddies or families that threw there money together and went along for the ride. They still start like that quite often but the good ones don't make until January of their 3 YO season without some whale buying in.. Can't blame the original owners really but it's getting old quickly.

Give me Saratoga on a Monday over any of these HUGE racing days. Just can't take it anymore, I know it's not great for the game just me ranting I guess. Ton of really good trainers out there as well who will never get a shot. Must suck

Last edited by Big Peps; 05-15-2018 at 08:24 AM.
Big Peps is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 09:05 AM   #8
Grits
Registered User
 
Grits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,457
Rep Power: 20 Grits has a spectacular aura aboutGrits has a spectacular aura about
GREAT POST!!!!!

Winstar has sold their absolute soul. I don't have an ounce of respect for them anymore. NONE. Winners circle money and glory.

Justify, Audible, Quip, Noble Indy. All sold for parts.

Elliott Walden and Kenny Troutt would sell the boots off a dead man...all while praising and thanking Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Grits is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 09:31 AM   #9
TiffaniO
Registered User
 
TiffaniO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Winner’s Circle
Posts: 192
Rep Power: 2 TiffaniO will become famous soon enoughTiffaniO will become famous soon enough
Smile

What I donít get is, why does it matter to any of us who owns the winner of the Derby? Or any other race? If the Funny Cide gang owns the horse or the owners of Justify own the horse, what difference does it make in your life and enjoyment of a horse race?

A good friend of mine owns 8% of Monomoy Girl. I sat right beside of him during the Oaks. Iím glad he won but whether 50 people or 1 person owns a horse doesnít make a difference in my enjoyment of a race.

Are we really to the point where this is what we are complaining about???

Someday maybe someone will have a positive thread on this site about horse racing. Lol

I remember when I was a small child and my dad would take me to the track and all the old men where huddled down stairs chomping on cigars and complaining. Well I figured out where they all went... theyíve either all passed on or they are now sitting behind their computers! The good news is, the track is a lot less smoky and pleasant now. Lol
TiffaniO is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 09:32 AM   #10
Big Peps
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 125
Rep Power: 0 Big Peps is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits View Post
GREAT POST!!!!!

Winstar has sold their absolute soul. I don't have an ounce of respect for them anymore. NONE. Winners circle money and glory.

Justify, Audible, Quip, Noble Indy. All sold for parts.

Elliott Walden and Kenny Troutt would sell the boots off a dead man...all while praising and thanking Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Yep, and they have plenty of offers and eager buyers dying to get into the winners circle on the big days. It's crazy that everywhere you turn it's Winstar and 1 of 3-4 owners basically pounding their chest yet media savy enough to say all the right things and thank all the right people, feels like politics.

Like I said, don't always agree with Mick Ruis but at least he is out there paving his own way, too bad he can't stay with one trainer, love to see what he could do with a Phil Damato type as his trainer

Last edited by Big Peps; 05-15-2018 at 09:38 AM.
Big Peps is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 09:43 AM   #11
Big Peps
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 125
Rep Power: 0 Big Peps is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiffaniO View Post
What I donít get is, why does it matter to any of us who owns the winner of the Derby? Or any other race? If the Funny Cide gang owns the horse or the owners of Justify own the horse, what difference does it make in your life and enjoyment of a horse race?

A good friend of mine owns 8% of Monomoy Girl. I sat right beside of him during the Oaks. Iím glad he won but whether 50 people or 1 person owns a horse doesnít make a difference in my enjoyment of a race.

Are we really to the point where this is what we are complaining about???

Someday maybe someone will have a positive thread on this site about horse racing. Lol

I remember when I was a small child and my dad would take me to the track and all the old men where huddled down stairs chomping on cigars and complaining. Well I figured out where they all went... theyíve either all passed on or they are now sitting behind their computers! The good news is, the track is a lot less smoky and pleasant now. Lol
Funny Cide?? was owned by bunch of buddies from Sackets Harbor, NY who found a one in a million type shot. Not the best example. It matters to many as there is no story and there won't be for the forseeable future given the model

It's the same as getting sick of the Patriots and Golden St, not different.

Does it really matter? not really but then again does any of it.
Big Peps is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 09:53 AM   #12
TiffaniO
Registered User
 
TiffaniO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Winner’s Circle
Posts: 192
Rep Power: 2 TiffaniO will become famous soon enoughTiffaniO will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Peps View Post
Funny Cide?? was owned by bunch of buddies from Sackets Harbor, NY who found a one in a million type shot. Not the best example. It matters to many as there is no story and there won't be for the forseeable future given the model

It's the same as getting sick of the Patriots and Golden St, not different.

Does it really matter? not really but then again does any of it.
Actually it is a good example, I don’t need your validation of my opinions... the OP talked about the warm fuzzies and Funny Cide was an accurate example of the warm fuzzies the media made it into with their lame school bus gimmick.

People whined when the favorites didn’t win for decades and now they whine that the favorites are on a run... always something.

Why do people waste so much time doing something that only brings them anguish? If ownership is what you are down to complaining about, you need to examine why you participate in the game.

Last edited by TiffaniO; 05-15-2018 at 09:56 AM.
TiffaniO is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 10:13 AM   #13
Big Peps
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 125
Rep Power: 0 Big Peps is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiffaniO View Post
Actually it is a good example, I donít need your validation of my opinions... the OP talked about the warm fuzzies and Funny Cide was an accurate example of the warm fuzzies the media made it into with their lame school bus gimmick.

People whined when the favorites didnít win for decades and now they whine that the favorites are on a run... always something.

Why do people waste so much time doing something that only brings them anguish? If ownership is what you are down to complaining about, you need to examine why you participate in the game.


makes zero sense. zero.

Last time I checked this is a forum to discuss horse racing, that is why we are here, stating that why do people spend time discussing trends in the game, etc. The owners are part of the game and IMO, worthy of discussion.

Do you really think this trend is good for racing? Nevermind, why waste time kicking that can down the road, clearly you are above it all.

I don't need to evaluate why I participate in the game but am "down" in discussing trends that I don't think lend itself to a great long term future. everything is unicorns and rainbows here
Big Peps is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 10:24 AM   #14
Fager Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,672
Rep Power: 14 Fager Fan has a spectacular aura aboutFager Fan has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiffaniO View Post
Actually it is a good example, I donít need your validation of my opinions... the OP talked about the warm fuzzies and Funny Cide was an accurate example of the warm fuzzies the media made it into with their lame school bus gimmick.

People whined when the favorites didnít win for decades and now they whine that the favorites are on a run... always something.

Why do people waste so much time doing something that only brings them anguish? If ownership is what you are down to complaining about, you need to examine why you participate in the game.
It was a bad example, despite your opinion to the contrary. As noted, a group of friends owning their once-in-a-lifetime horse is far different than a group of business associate buying into and controlling large parts of a field.

A trophy used to be one of a kind, or maybe there would have to be an extra copy made for a partner. Now there are too many copies of trophies being made to count, and a guy can look like he's won as many Derbies as Calumet when he really bought in on a leg of each made horse.

But the worse problem is the concentration of top horses among few trainers. Let me repeat. Brown has 150 2-year-olds. By God, I hope he (one of his trainers, actually) can develop a good one or two from that group, and then he can bask in another Eclipse award, and get 200 2-year-olds next year.
Fager Fan is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-15-2018, 10:26 AM   #15
TiffaniO
Registered User
 
TiffaniO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Winner’s Circle
Posts: 192
Rep Power: 2 TiffaniO will become famous soon enoughTiffaniO will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan View Post
It was a bad example, despite your opinion to the contrary. As noted, a group of friends owning their once-in-a-lifetime horse is far different than a group of business associate buying into and controlling large parts of a field.

A trophy used to be one of a kind, or maybe there would have to be an extra copy made for a partner. Now there are too many copies of trophies being made to count, and a guy can look like he's won as many Derbies as Calumet when he really bought in on a leg of each made horse.

But the worse problem is the concentration of top horses among few trainers. Let me repeat. Brown has 150 2-year-olds. By God, I hope he (one of his trainers, actually) can develop a good one or two from that group, and then he can bask in another Eclipse award, and get 200 2-year-olds next year.
Obviously you didn’t comprehend what I said...

I wasn’t comparing funny Cide to justify... I was pointing out the difference and to me, it doesn’t matter to me who owns the horse. Obviously you just like to argue.

As for Chad Brown have you complained personally to the Racing Commissions where he races? I’d guess not.

Last edited by TiffaniO; 05-15-2018 at 10:30 AM.
TiffaniO is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Will Brick and Mortar only sports betting help horse racing?
If Brick and Mortar Only for 2 years it will help horse racing. - 47.37%
9 Votes
If NOT Brick and mortar only it will hurt horse racing. - 52.63%
10 Votes
Total Votes: 19
Non-members may not vote on this poll.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2018 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved -- Best Viewed in a modern browser @ 1280x720 Resolution Or Higher
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.