Juan Carlos Guerrero in a class by himself...

[thaskalos]

We have discussed the training prowess of Mr. Guerrero before...but a few more details about him are worth noting.

Here are some winning stats from this "remarkable" trainer...proving once and for all that he is the most amazingly consistent trainer of all time.

These stats do not include his performance yesterday at Parx...where he had 2 winners, a narrowly beaten 2nd, and a close 3rd...out of FOUR starters:


1st off the claim.......55%

Repeaters................41%

Sprints....................40%

Routes....................43%

31-60 day layoff.......44%

45-180 day layoff......49%

ALL STARTERS..........43%


Did you EVER think that you would see a trainer with a 40%+ winning percentage in EVERY SINGLE training category imaginable?

[Stillriledup]

MISTER Guerrero? You don't happen to work for the NY Times, do you?

These are pretty mind numbing stats, What's it all mean? Maybe you just get all the money you can get before you get kicked out of racing?

[Delawaretrainer]

Heard he is branching out this spring and will have horses stabled at other tracks. Hopefully, one of these other juristictions will address the "issue".
He brought someone I know into his barn and started picking up horses legs and said that everyone thinks he is using something but really he wins races because he injects all of their joints all the time so they feel good. Pluuueeeze. Everyone injects joints when they need it and if you are doing it when they don't need it, it is detrimental to the horse.

[Tenacross]

If you are a trainer competing against Guerrero, I can see the jealous
accusations. But if you are a gambler, I don't get the beef. The guy
obviously tries with everything he leads over. Handicap from there.

[jotb]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

We have discussed the training prowess of Mr. Guerrero before...but a few more details about him are worth noting.

Here are some winning stats from this "remarkable" trainer...proving once and for all that he is the most amazingly consistent trainer of all time.

These stats do not include his performance yesterday at Parx...where he had 2 winners, a narrowly beaten 2nd, and a close 3rd...out of FOUR starters:


1st off the claim.......55%

Repeaters................41%

Sprints....................40%

Routes....................43%

31-60 day layoff.......44%

45-180 day layoff......49%

ALL STARTERS..........43%


Did you EVER think that you would see a trainer with a 40%+ winning percentage in EVERY SINGLE training category imaginable?

He wins 55% of his races when he rides Kendrick Carmouche 22 wins from 40 races this year.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Tenacross

If you are a trainer competing against Guerrero, I can see the jealous
accusations. But if you are a gambler, I don't get the beef. The guy
obviously tries with everything he leads over. Handicap from there.

I think the beef would be that he ruins most races where he has an entrant...unless you are big on collecting $3.40 that is.

I would also say most bettors like to be able to bet horses, not people, since it is "horse" racing.

[Delawaretrainer]

Originally Posted by Tenacross

If you are a trainer competing against Guerrero, I can see the jealous
accusations. But if you are a gambler, I don't get the beef. The guy
obviously tries with everything he leads over. Handicap from there.

Wow, how ignorant. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. I would take no pride in cheating to win. I can sleep at night. My goal is to be a TRUE horseman, not end up in jail. I would rather clean hourly hotel rooms than steal from the industry I love.

The beef is not jealousy. How about the millions of dollars we all spend getting our horses to the races legally? It is all a waste if someone is fixing races by skirting the rules. Do you have any idea how much it costs to manage a race horse? You really need to get your head out of your @#$@.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Tenacross

If you are a trainer competing against Guerrero, I can see the jealous
accusations. But if you are a gambler, I don't get the beef. The guy
obviously tries with everything he leads over. Handicap from there.

He ruins races. If he's in there, he's 3-5 or less, you cant bet on him or against him. That's the beef Clara.

[Tenacross]

Originally Posted by Delawaretrainer

Wow, how ignorant. Jealousy has nothing to do with it.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to manage a race horse? You really need to get your head out of your @#$@.

Yeah, I have a pretty good idea.

[Delawaretrainer]

Originally Posted by Tenacross

Yeah, I have a pretty good idea.

Well, if you know, then would you be jealous if one guy won almost half the time with horses he is moving UP from good barns? Or, would you be pissed off? You spend thousands for just one race when you take into account training, cost of the horse, vet, shoes, layup, etc. then you and the other 9 horses collectively have a 50% chance of winning. Why bother? You have to win to stay in business.

I'm assuming if you have been around the block you know these numbers are statistically impossible unless you are dropping horses like crazy, not moving them up. Or, do you still believe OJ is innocent?

[Track Phantom]

If everyone knows he cheating, why can't something be done about it? You cannot convince me that they are "undectable". Maybe at first, yes. But not years into it.

In my opinion, the inability to put this guy in prison, where he belongs for committing a felonious act of parimutual tampering, says the industry wants or even needs these guys. What bothers me is the track has NO incentive to crack down on these guys. The track gets their take regardless. I garauntee you that if these cheating trainers were not only winning races but betting so much into say, the show pool, that the track had a negative take, these guys would be caught instantly.

Finally, anyone who says a bettor should just factor obvious cheating into their betting has no idea how to handicap or wager on races. It's about the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

[Delawaretrainer]

I don't know what he is using but there are plenty of things that are not detectable just before or right after the race. For example:


http://manoequestrianservices.blogsp...nitrotain.html


That is why I advocate testing of horses on the grounds not racing that day and cameras/security in certain barns. However, some trainers say steroids are therapeutic for getting horses to eat, etc. and should be legal when withdrawn in a timely manner. Problem is, when you withdraw these drugs, the horse retains the effects on the muscles and it is still performance enhancing even though the levels are ok at the test barn.

So, I have no idea what it is, ITTP, EPO, pigjuice, blah blah blah. But some juristiction has to take a tiny extra step to see what is getting into these horses that is not detectable post race.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Valento

If everyone knows he cheating, why can't something be done about it? You cannot convince me that they are "undectable". Maybe at first, yes. But not years into it.

In my opinion, the inability to put this guy in prison, where he belongs for committing a felonious act of parimutual tampering, says the industry wants or even needs these guys. What bothers me is the track has NO incentive to crack down on these guys. The track gets their take regardless. I garauntee you that if these cheating trainers were not only winning races but betting so much into say, the show pool, that the track had a negative take, these guys would be caught instantly.

Finally, anyone who says a bettor should just factor obvious cheating into their betting has no idea how to handicap or wager on races. It's about the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

We are talking Parx here.

[Pell Mell]

Here's a couple of interesting reads on this problem.

http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2011/0...ace-horse.html

This next one shows how to stop the problem.
http://racing.scmp.com/freeservice/n...s20110410d.asp

Pell Mell



http://backstretchtalks.blogspot.com/

[castaway01]

Based on past history, I'd be shocked if Guerrero started up a stable in Delaware or anywhere else and also won over 40 percent. If he's clean, then sure, maybe he will, but if he's not then there's no way the "locals" someplace else allow him to come in and take their money. He might win at 15 percent or something, but not what he does at Parx. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, we'll see.