TX elementary school mass shooting

[PressThePace]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I bought my guns many moons ago, as did my wife. I'm pretty sure we both went through background checks because the laws required it. So...what is the point, again, exactly for those "background checks come to a vote"?

I'm talking about a more extensive background check that would prevent a kid with obvious issues from walking into a local Dick's Sporting Goods and purchasing a firearm that he would ultimately kill 20+ people with in a few days. Why is this a bad idea? Just answer that simple question with a simple direct answer, please.

[PressThePace]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

You don’t need background checks for any of your rights.

2nd Amend is a right just like the 1st Amend

That's your opinion. The overwhelming percentage of people in this country (Democrats AND Republicans) disagree with you. The only people who have prevented it from happening are the gun lobby and lots of Republican Senators.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

I'm not interested in giving this any extra oxygen.

I'll just say anybody interested in bringing this up in relation to recent events isn't a serious person.

Oh, you only support enforcing gun laws for some prople?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

You don’t need background checks for any of your rights.

2nd Amend is a right just like the 1st Amend

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I have to disagree.
We have this right because a well regulated militia is necessary. Wouldn't ensuring the quality of people bearing arms be necessary for well regulation?
Is the security of a free state served by not keeping guns out of the hands of unbalanced people?

Do you have a concealed carry permit?
Isn't that an infringement, whe the 2nd clearly states keep and "bear" arms?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PressThePace

I'm talking about a more extensive background check that would prevent a kid with obvious issues from walking into a local Dick's Sporting Goods and purchasing a firearm that he would ultimately kill 20+ people with in a few days. Why is this a bad idea? Just answer that simple question with a simple direct answer, please.

Okay...and what if such a kid had never been committed to a psychiatric institution; therefore having no "obvious issues" in his background? Then what?

[xtb]

I believe there are some people that should not be allowed to possess firearms, much like felons lose their right to vote. The problem with knee-jerk legislation arises when the rights of law abiding citizens are trampled and the real problems are not addressed.

Criminals will always find ways to break laws, it's what they do.

I live in one of the most restrictive states in the country regarding firearms yet, illegal guns and shootings are rampant in most cities in the state, breaking records each year. 10 years ago not far from where I live, first responders were set up and murdered by a nut who paid a girl to legally purchase an AR-15 for him. Laws were clearly broken and the girl went to prison. The horrible incident triggered the "SAFE Act" in NY state, written by Democrats, pushed hard by Andrew Cuomo, voted on literally in the middle of the night and passed with a Republican majority in the state senate. It was all politics and most everyone cheered the SAFE Act because something was finally being done to make us "safer".

The SAFE Act has done nothing to make New York residents safer from criminals.

The SAFE Act incorrectly identifies what an "assault rifle" is by cosmetic options. An M1-A is a far more lethal weapon than an AR-15 but with its wooden stock, is not as scary looking and does not receive any attention. This is the ridiculous legislation that was going to make everyone "safer" by banning "assault rifles":

Putting any one of these features on a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine will qualify the firearm as an "assault weapon" under the Safe Act:

Folding or Telescoping Stock
Protruding Pistol Grip
Thumbhole Stock
Second Handgrip or Protruding Grip that can be held by non-shooting hand
Bayonet Mount
Flash Suppressor
Muzzle Brake
Muzzle Compensator
A threaded barrel designed to accommodate attachments to the barrel
Grenade Launcher

Now, you can have any or all of these features with non-detachable magazine and the rifle will be "safe" and legal, but add a detachable magazine and it suddenly becomes much more dangerous. Guess what it takes to make a magazine detachable and thus turn the weapon into an "assault rifle", remove one freaking allen screw.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Tom

Do you have a concealed carry permit?
Isn't that an infringement, whe the 2nd clearly states keep and "bear" arms?

Yes it is….and some courts have actually ruled that it is. You know I have a permit. Have had one in 3 different states and now I don’t need one here in Texas (although mine is valid for 3 more years)

These decisions have led to “constitutional carry” being the law of the land, like it should be. But each state chooses.

This kid is an outlier. He could have accomplished the same thing by running those kids down with a car at recess. See here, very little coverage.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...e-in-santa-ana

When you pass laws for background checks etc you are only interfering with rights of law abiding citizens. The bad guys are never going to pay attention to the laws no matter the state/country or circumstances.

[PressThePace]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Okay...and what if such a kid had never been committed to a psychiatric institution; therefore having no "obvious issues" in his background? Then what?

That's why you need an extensive background check. This kid had a troubled past in school that had been documented.

I live in Oklahoma. Our Highway Patrol candidates have to go through an unbelievably in depth background check, with interviews of past work colleagues, acquaintances, etc. But, if you're a kid with documented psychological and discipline issues (but no criminal background) and turn 18 years of age, you can go straight to a gun dealer and purchase a firearm. If that's not disturbing to people, I can see why we have a problem.

[PhantomOnTour]

If the bad guys don't pay any attention to the law then why have any laws?

The law against murder hasn't stopped them from happening.
Let's scrap it.
The law against insider trading hasn't prevented that either.
Let's scrap that law too.

Clearly those laws are not working.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PressThePace

That's why you need an extensive background check. This kid had a troubled past in school that had been documented.

I live in Oklahoma. Our Highway Patrol candidates have to go through an unbelievably in depth background check, with interviews of past work colleagues, acquaintances, etc. But, if you're a kid with documented psychological and discipline issues (but no criminal background) and turn 18 years of age, you can go straight to a gun dealer and purchase a firearm. If that's not disturbing to people, I can see why we have a problem.

A lot of kids grow up having "troubled pasts" of one kind or another. Define "troubled pasts".

[xtb]

Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour

If the bad guys don't pay any attention to the law then why have any laws?

The law against murder hasn't stopped them from happening.
Let's scrap it.
The law against insider trading hasn't prevented that either.
Let's scrap that law too.

Clearly those laws are not working.

The deterrent is supposed to be the punishment for breaking the laws, but we don't do that anymore.

[PressThePace]

When you pass laws for background checks etc you are only interfering with rights of law abiding citizens. The bad guys are never going to pay attention to the laws no matter the state/country or circumstances.

I'm so tired of this apathetic response. The point is to deter as much as you can. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think all of it can be prevented. Are you okay with the heightened security checks at airports? I'm a law abiding citizen. To me, a background check is a small price to pay to save even one life.

[PressThePace]

Originally Posted by boxcar

A lot of kids grow up having "troubled pasts" of one kind or another. Define "troubled pasts".

I'm not going down the rabbit hole with you. I've seen your diatribes long enough on this site. You obviously have a high degree of intelligence. But, common sense is not your strong suit.

[PressThePace]

Originally Posted by xtb

The deterrent is supposed to be the punishment for breaking the laws, but we don't do that anymore.

Hey, no argument here. Sometimes you gotta work with what you've got. At this point, I just want the occurrences to slow down.

[xtb]

I have read reports that the shooter walked around the school for 12 minutes and then entered the school through an unlocked door. If the door had been locked like it should have been, I wonder if that extra time would have been enough for the cops to get there and prevent him from eventually entering.