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11-14-2014, 12:48 AM
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#692
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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[QUOTE=Stillriledup]
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Originally Posted by onefast99
This is true, if you are a trainer who owns part of some horses, your skin is with your ownership. If you kept ownership and retired as a trainer the game wouldn't notice. If you stayed as a trainer and sold your interest in horses, that would be worse, your ownership would be missed.
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Every trainer I ever knew considered the horse theirs just as coach considers a team his. The owner is a necessary evil who is there to pay the bills and should not be involved in day to day operations. An owner is expected to leave things to the "horse people" who how to handle horses. Not every owner does that though.
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Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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11-14-2014, 01:33 AM
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#693
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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[QUOTE=Robert Goren]
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Every trainer I ever knew considered the horse theirs just as coach considers a team his. The owner is a necessary evil who is there to pay the bills and should not be involved in day to day operations. An owner is expected to leave things to the "horse people" who how to handle horses. Not every owner does that though.
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Sure, i get all that, there are plenty of trainers who are deeply invested in their animals and work their tails off 7 days a week. My point was that if a trainer retired, it wouldn't hurt the industry at all, their horses would just go to another trainer and things would be exactly the same as if they were never there in the first place. The "Game" doesn't lose money if a trainer retires.
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11-14-2014, 08:41 AM
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#694
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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[QUOTE=Robert Goren]
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Every trainer I ever knew considered the horse theirs just as coach considers a team his. The owner is a necessary evil who is there to pay the bills and should not be involved in day to day operations. An owner is expected to leave things to the "horse people" who how to handle horses. Not every owner does that though.
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I'm sure you realize there are many very smart and knowledgeable owners who are involved in the day to day operations and are very successful, the Ramseys would be one that comes to mind, they aren't evil in any sense of the word.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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11-14-2014, 08:46 AM
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#695
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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[QUOTE=Stillriledup]
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
Sure, i get all that, there are plenty of trainers who are deeply invested in their animals and work their tails off 7 days a week. My point was that if a trainer retired, it wouldn't hurt the industry at all, their horses would just go to another trainer and things would be exactly the same as if they were never there in the first place. The "Game" doesn't lose money if a trainer retires.
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Maybe you are right, but I am sure the horsemen here will point that there they are losing trainers each year and they are not being replaced. Maybe it isn't as bad as the yearly loss of bettors, but it is happening.
I think if the game address the loss of bettors and stops the bleeding, the other things that ail racing will take care of themselves.
There are questions that I have do not have an answer for such as Has the loss of revenue stopped do to the bettor switching from live racing and simulcast centers to ADWs? The loss revenue from racing sources has to have been a lot bigger than the just drop in handle the last couple of decades. Race tracks have those numbers and so do the Horsemen groups, but the public does not.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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11-14-2014, 08:48 AM
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#696
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
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If the sports leagues get a cut, there were little or nothing left for the horsemen.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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11-14-2014, 09:16 AM
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#697
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
If the sports leagues get a cut, there were little or nothing left for the horsemen.
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You should read Ray Lesniaks first proposal for sports wagering and the crafting of the bill to see what the actual reasons are and were to bring this type of gambling to NJ. Because with each and every post you seem to gravitate to the misconception that the "evil" horseman are going to make millions off their fellow residents of NJ once this platform goes live. Hopefully you will read the actual bill and put some truth to your posts instead of heresay you are so famous for.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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11-14-2014, 09:17 AM
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#698
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
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To be fair lets also include everything Silver said and if adopted his way sw would be a HUGE success.
"Without a comprehensive federal solution, state measures such as New Jersey's recent initiative will be both unlawful and bad public policy," Silver wrote in the op-ed.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...-opinion-piece
Of course there will be one person on here who still believes there will be a corporation called Betfair NJ who will become dominant. He will "probably" state something like don't believe Silver he doesn't have a clue but I'm the pied piper "follow" me.
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11-14-2014, 09:32 AM
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#699
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
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Meet the 'stock market' for politics
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Originally Posted by onefast99
You should read Ray Lesniaks first proposal for sports wagering and the crafting of the bill to see what the actual reasons are and were to bring this type of gambling to NJ. Because with each and every post you seem to gravitate to the misconception that the "evil" horseman are going to make millions off their fellow residents of NJ once this platform goes live. Hopefully you will read the actual bill and put some truth to your posts instead of heresay you are so famous for.
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I commend Lesniak's efforts to help any industry in the state of NJ it's not an easy task.
I would love to ask him what he stopped at the sw level. Wagering on the outcome of political races would bring in lots of people (my opinion) who never even considered making a wager on a horse race.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/1...et-112374.html
Someone on here was really knowledgeable about this just can't recall who it was. This is a "futures" bet that people would drive a distance to make a wager because everything would be paid out the first tuesday of November.
Maybe Lesniak wants to take baby steps but people visiting NYC might even make a trip to the Meadowlands just to have a receipt to brag about picking the "winner". My hunch is there would be a bunch of bets filling electronic scrapbooks and not being cashed.
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11-14-2014, 12:15 PM
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#700
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Canarsie
I commend Lesniak's efforts to help any industry in the state of NJ it's not an easy task.
I would love to ask him what he stopped at the sw level. Wagering on the outcome of political races would bring in lots of people (my opinion) who never even considered making a wager on a horse race.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/1...et-112374.html
Someone on here was really knowledgeable about this just can't recall who it was. This is a "futures" bet that people would drive a distance to make a wager because everything would be paid out the first tuesday of November.
Maybe Lesniak wants to take baby steps but people visiting NYC might even make a trip to the Meadowlands just to have a receipt to brag about picking the "winner". My hunch is there would be a bunch of bets filling electronic scrapbooks and not being cashed. |
That would be a great bet you would get the odds on the entire field early on and eventually a long shot may just get in!
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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11-14-2014, 04:51 PM
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#701
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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11-15-2014, 07:13 AM
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#702
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Canarsie
Of course there will be one person on here who still believes there will be a corporation called Betfair NJ who will become dominant. He will "probably" state something like don't believe Silver he doesn't have a clue but I'm the pied piper "follow" me.
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Betfair UK is already doing great business, ( I am sure you are aware of the recent runup in its stock price), Betfair NJ (or whatever you want to call it) runs NJ's monopolistic account wagering platform and it looks (finally) that exchange wagering will soon here in Jersey, co-mingling Jersey's residents bets with others.
and yes I think Silver is wrong. PASPA will NEVER be repealed under the present political environment. things would have to change drastically in the US and I just don't see that happening but then again I bet against Bayern
in the classic with toast of New York in the classic. so I could be wrong.
Allan
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11-15-2014, 08:18 AM
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#703
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by onefast99
You should read Ray Lesniaks first proposal for sports wagering and the crafting of the bill to see what the actual reasons are and were to bring this type of gambling to NJ. Because with each and every post you seem to gravitate to the misconception that the "evil" horseman are going to make millions off their fellow residents of NJ once this platform goes live. Hopefully you will read the actual bill and put some truth to your posts instead of heresay you are so famous for.
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I know one thing, if it were not for the horsemen, the NJ bill would not have seen the light of day. It also mostly horsemen like you who keep posting reason the courts have to rule in favor of NJ.
If you think I think horsemen are evil, you are right. It is the greed of the horsemen who continually pushed for higher takeout until it has gotten todays levels. They have ruined the game. When I started betting the takeout was 12%. 5% of that was tax. the track and horsemen split the rest. Race tracks were full of people on Saturdays. Now the takeout is at least 18% (a very exceptions) less than 1% is tax in most states. You can shoot a cannon through most race tracks on most Saturdays and not hit anyone. They look like nursing homes. That does not even count what you do the horses these days. 50 years ago if trainer tried to pull what is common today, they would have banned from every track in the country and shunned by society in general. When I first started betting, I made a point of knowing a bunch of horsemen and some of them were pretty shady. But the average horseman of today would make even the shadiest of them blush. The horsemen of today have pushed the sport to edge of extinction with their greed and are desperately seeking a bailout from anywhere they can.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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11-15-2014, 08:27 AM
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#704
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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[QUOTE=onefast99]
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
I'm sure you realize there are many very smart and knowledgeable owners who are involved in the day to day operations and are very successful, the Ramseys would be one that comes to mind, they aren't evil in any sense of the word.
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Are trying tell me that trainers like very smart and knowledgeable owners? Of coarse if an owner was really smart, he would not be an owner. Owning race horses will turn a large fortune into small fortune faster than almost anything else.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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11-15-2014, 09:07 AM
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#705
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,772
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[QUOTE=Robert Goren]
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Originally Posted by onefast99
Are trying tell me that trainers like very smart and knowledgeable owners? Of coarse if an owner was really smart, he would not be an owner. Owning race horses will turn a large fortune into small fortune faster than almost anything else.
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how do you know that owner's have to lose money in this game?
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