FanDuel To Create 24/7 Sports Betting Network Through Rebranded TVG -

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Tom

I/m not looking at the big picture or the politics behind abything.
Simply, I am a customer who is getting a lesser product than I was two weeks ago.

I don't care about hi def, I had a screen that I watched races on and now that view is not as good, no chicklettes because of the stupi banner. obscured view of the finish at some tracks.

Yea its not as good a product. I guess then its time to seek out other competitors rather than support them as the alternative.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Horse Racing has failed miserably in it's attempts to grow the game. Fan Duel/TVG coverage will only get worse. Covering 5 or more tracks just doesn't work at all. The Fox broadcast is 100 times better but how long before they start to change?

Why would we change?

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Horse Racing has failed miserably in it's attempts to grow the game. Fan Duel/TVG coverage will only get worse. Covering 5 or more tracks just doesn't work at all. The Fox broadcast is 100 times better but how long before they start to change?

CDI linking back up with TVG/FANDUEL just in order to be accessible to more sports bettors shows just how clueless they are and the industry is as a whole.

FIX THE GAMBLING PRODUCT. Fix the cheating and the late odds changes. You think a football bettor that gets a million promos during the week is going to stick to betting juiced trainers, five horse fields, and late odds changes?

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by $w1fT

CDI linking back up with TVG/FANDUEL just in order to be accessible to more sports bettors shows just how clueless they are and the industry is as a whole.

FIX THE GAMBLING PRODUCT. Fix the cheating and the late odds changes. You think a football bettor that gets a million promos during the week is going to stick to betting juiced trainers, five horse fields, and late odds changes?

They're going where the money is. Horse Racing FAILED grow the Customer base. The strategy should have been to get the twice a year people to come twice a month and then twice a week. Instead they grew the crazy high rebate class (Players with a bankroll, technology, and skill advantage).

If they wanted to fix the Gambling product they would.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

They're going where the money is. Horse Racing FAILED grow the Customer base. The strategy should have been to get the twice a year people to come twice a month and then twice a week. Instead they grew the crazy high rebate class (Players with a bankroll, technology, and skill advantage).

If they wanted to fix the Gambling product they would.

They failed to grow the customer base for one significant reason. They do not really know who their "potential" customers are.

There is something unique about you, me and those of us lifers in this sport. There is something we have (or don't have) that draws us so tightly to this game especially given the myriad of obstacles that would drive normal people out. I don't know what it is but if it was my business to grow the sport, I would know. I would conduct psychological studies to determine the unique traits we posses and where those people congregate.

I've exposed the sport of horse racing to at least 100 people in my lifetime (friends and family) and not a single one of them got hooked on the sport. But I believe there are thousands of people that are predisposed to stick with this game but have never been exposed to it.

Other forms of gambling have become available and many more convenient. I can't see how horse racing can maintain the relevance (if you can call it that) it has at the moment. But the game has survived dozens of near-death events. Maybe it will continue to do so, albeit on life-support.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by $w1fT

CDI linking back up with TVG/FANDUEL just in order to be accessible to more sports bettors shows just how clueless they are and the industry is as a whole.

FIX THE GAMBLING PRODUCT. Fix the cheating and the late odds changes. You think a football bettor that gets a million promos during the week is going to stick to betting juiced trainers, five horse fields, and late odds changes?

Casinos were supposed to help attract new fans to racing. Instead they created zombie tracks that dilute the overall industry handle and only exist because they get casino money.

Now they are going to try a similar thing with sports?

This industry is in the ICU on life support but I'm not sure the leaders of it even realize it. Take away the casino money and purses collapse, more trainers and owners leave, the horse shortage gets worse, and you can't put on a good enough show to get the handle you get now that can't even keep up with inflation let alone grow.

The solution is over my pay grade, but it's obvious you have to pull costs out of the system and use free cash to make the product more attractive. A business model where you use tons of high quality potentially profitable land to run an operation that's dependent on other profitable businesses to keep it alive is a pretty bad business model for the long term.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

They're going where the money is. Horse Racing FAILED grow the Customer base. The strategy should have been to get the twice a year people to come twice a month and then twice a week. Instead they grew the crazy high rebate class (Players with a bankroll, technology, and skill advantage).

If they wanted to fix the Gambling product they would.

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

They failed to grow the customer base for one significant reason. They do not really know who their "potential" customers are.

The key theme being expressed by both posts is that there is not a single marketing strategy that covers all demographics in the game. One strategy is to rebate large players and that does not compete with the conversion of a casual summer time player into a Spring/Autumn or year-round player.

Does the bachelor/bachelorette party in Saratoga's backyard worry about a rebate based on their betting? Does the CAW gambler worry about getting dressed up for the event or an extra cocktail?

I would profer that NYRA in particular does understand its customer types and you are seeing that glacial evolution take place in front of our eyes including the America's Day at the Races and Saratoga Live broadcasts.

As much as it pains me to say it, revisualizing Belmont Park is part of that process. The long game is to create an event destination at Belmont Park to appeal to the in-person demographic on Long Island and in the New York region while continuing to expose the product via television.

And make no mistake, NYRA is doing both virtually on their own.

The NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL succeed as national leagues. In horse racing, the game is either local or at best, a state-wide endeavor. Imagine the waste over the last two decades of ineffective local marketing dollars that could have been better directed at the broader sport in consideration of those varied demographics.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

There is something unique about you, me and those of us lifers in this sport. There is something we have (or don't have) that draws us so tightly to this game especially given the myriad of obstacles that would drive normal people out. I don't know what it is but if it was my business to grow the sport, I would know. I would conduct psychological studies to determine the unique traits we posses and where those people congregate.

I've exposed the sport of horse racing to at least 100 people in my lifetime (friends and family) and not a single one of them got hooked on the sport. But I believe there are thousands of people that are predisposed to stick with this game but have never been exposed to it.

Other forms of gambling have become available and many more convenient. I can't see how horse racing can maintain the relevance (if you can call it that) it has at the moment. But the game has survived dozens of near-death events. Maybe it will continue to do so, albeit on life-support.

Great post! How and when you learn about the game is so critical.

Like many of you on this board, I started to learn the game when I was seven years old and I was taught by my father - who learned about racing from his family and so forth. As a mathematician (which I was not at the time obviously), the numbers, statistics, calculations, toteboard, and likely compulsive desire to be right all drew me to the animals circling the oval in front of me. The challenge of handicapping was always first in my mind; the sport was second.

Why do we try to teach algebra to eighth and ninth graders? Why do you struggle to learn a new language in your fifties? Research shows that those pathways to learning are most fertile before you are 18 years old. If you have not mastered algebra by the time you head to college, chances are you never will.

And what does that have to do with anything? Well, come back to me making my first visit to Aqueduct when I was 8 years old; add in Roosevelt and the cool vibes of "night racing" when I was 12.

There were not a million youth sports leagues competing for my time. Distractions from a Mattel Intellivision or Atari gaming system were still years away. Mom and Dad were still a one-wage earner family and aside from mowing the lawn on Friday night or Saturday morning, household tasks were largely done during the week. Weekends were made for racing in my life. (And I have made it this far without using the expression "halceon days" even once.)

I learned the game while in my formative years. My guess is that many of us did. Moreso, I guess is that at least some of us can remember being at the track with our Dads. Effectively, it became part of our DNA. Our families did the marketing to us.

Looking through today's prism, these parameters have changed. The entire lifecycle of creating a fan has changed. At its core, that is what we are discussing. The education cycle has been placed at the doorstep of marketing. My decade long childhood experience is getting compressed into a 60-second commercial on television.

[Sheffwed]

the way to promote the game is as Scott says

1) make racing a positive social outing - it is why Saratoga and Del Mar had great seasons, they are fun places to visit - the more of this the better for the sport, I'd check out the success some local steeplechase meetings have also - stop having racing run in racetracks that look like factories and make it a fun place to visit and the sport will be fine and can build from there (hint: given record handle this year, the sport is fine in this country and many others)

2) do what you can to make wagering profitable for the average player - why do the big players get these enormous rebates? I'm a small player and have my successes and am a small owner - this is the way to bring in more casual bettors who just want to have some fun - I don't see how helping the big guns helps anyone - it's like carried interest in private equity helped Boston become a boomtown, who is that helping and not exactly

3) and the thing that isn't happening is cracking down on corruption in the game - HK does this well and is a model for how this can work (for all of their other challenges as a region these days), here in the US you have to pick your spots knowing a race may not be on the level at a given moment

Very tired of the doomsayers, racing is dead or dying - no its not, not in the face of record handle and record crowds this summer

There is too much low level racing - I don't mean Mountaineer, which I love, I mean New Mexico and Arizona and those abusive off the radar Georgia tracks, lots of work to be done, but not a dead sport, in fact in some ways the sport has more potential now than it has in my life, and I'm in my early 60s

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

the way to promote the game is as Scott says

1) make racing a positive social outing - it is why Saratoga and Del Mar had great seasons, they are fun places to visit - the more of this the better for the sport, I'd check out the success some local steeplechase meetings have also - stop having racing run in racetracks that look like factories and make it a fun place to visit and the sport will be fine and can build from there (hint: given record handle this year, the sport is fine in this country and many others)

2) do what you can to make wagering profitable for the average player - why do the big players get these enormous rebates? I'm a small player and have my successes and am a small owner - this is the way to bring in more casual bettors who just want to have some fun - I don't see how helping the big guns helps anyone - it's like carried interest in private equity helped Boston become a boomtown, who is that helping and not exactly

3) and the thing that isn't happening is cracking down on corruption in the game - HK does this well and is a model for how this can work (for all of their other challenges as a region these days), here in the US you have to pick your spots knowing a race may not be on the level at a given moment

Very tired of the doomsayers, racing is dead or dying - no its not, not in the face of record handle and record crowds this summer

There is too much low level racing - I don't mean Mountaineer, which I love, I mean New Mexico and Arizona and those abusive off the radar Georgia tracks, lots of work to be done, but not a dead sport, in fact in some ways the sport has more potential now than it has in my life, and I'm in my early 60s

100% Agreed.

Hard for every track to follow the Saratoga model because of the location and time of year. But tracks need to be less concrete monstrosities and more of events places.

Coolers, cheap admission, something for all ages to do. Give a family of 4 a reason to go to the track and spend $100 instead of $300 at a baseball game.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

the way to promote the game is as Scott says

1) make racing a positive social outing - it is why Saratoga and Del Mar had great seasons, they are fun places to visit - the more of this the better for the sport, I'd check out the success some local steeplechase meetings have also - stop having racing run in racetracks that look like factories and make it a fun place to visit and the sport will be fine and can build from there (hint: given record handle this year, the sport is fine in this country and many others)

I've been saying things along these lines for the longest time.

The most successful tracks have been the ones that offer high quality racing and that can be part of a pleasant overall vacation experience.

People don't need to go to the track anymore to bet. To get the casuals and even serious players out there it has to be enough of a positive experience relative to just betting from home to make it worthwhile.

There are only a handful of tracks in the country that offer high quality racing, a great on track experience, and that can part of a nice overall vacation experience.

But when you say things like this people start freaking out about losing industry jobs, breeding, etc... We have a patient suffering from severe heart issues and we are still giving him baby aspirins and watching him slowly deteriorate instead performing the major surgery that's required.

(On your last point, it's all a mirage in the US. Handle is WAY down from its peak in inflation adjusted dollars despite the country being at an economic peak with high employment and free money from the government. That economic tail wind is not going to last, especially with the Fed tightening to fight inflation. There's an old saying. "You don't know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out". When the tide goes out (and it will - maybe soon), we are going to see that a lot of tracks are naked).

[elhelmete]

Very little can be done to compensate for the precipitously declining foal crop. The YOY numbers from 2020 to 2021 are sobering.

[Zydeco]

They just showed a harness race labeled as "Charlestown 1" was very confused. Going to bed. lol

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Very little can be done to compensate for the precipitously declining foal crop. The YOY numbers from 2020 to 2021 are sobering.

yea the numbers are pretty staggering.

[classhandicapper]

The foal crop numbers are less frightening as long as horses like Into Mischief, Curlin, Gun Runner, Tap It and the entire 1st and 2nd tier of sires keep breeding at the same rate. If horses of much lower quality (like some 3rd and 4th tier state bred programs) are breeding less, it's less of a problem because they are less likely to produce the kind of offspring that will populate major races at major tracks. After that, the number of races (or more importantly tracks!) has to match the foal crop. However, talk like that puts everyone into a tizzy fit. The only other alternative is figuring out a way to increase demand for horses so breeders breed more of them. That takes you right back to the economics of horse ownership. They tend to be pretty bad. That's why there isn't huge demand for horses except at the top end.