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Old 05-03-2022, 08:49 AM   #1
Andy Asaro
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As sports betting expands, horse racing faces an 'essential' need to adapt

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Old 05-03-2022, 10:31 AM   #2
Dave Schwartz
 
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Andy,

Good post & good idea.

Alas, this "need" has been around for 3 decades but tracks always go towards making it worse rather than better.

ALWAYS.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:51 AM   #3
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i certainly don't think that exchange or fixed odds wagering does anything for racing at all. the system of pari-mutual is the best one that i can see if it is implemented properly.

racing's problems are mainly that the game has scared the fans away from the game due to unequal playing fields, whether you own the horse or bet on them.

when you think about it, if the Yankees had 40 players on their roster and other teams could only have 28, who do you think would win all the games?
its really not any different in horse racing. i see major stakes races out in California where all they can muster up is a 5 horse field and the same trainer has 4 of them.
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Old 05-03-2022, 08:43 PM   #4
Onesome
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Exchange wagering and 3rd party fixed odds operators do the same thing effectively - lower takeout. If anything US racing raises the effective takeout for the small better with the rebates to the computer guys.

But I agree, if a track had the balls to go to 5% WPS takeout and leave exotics the same, you wouldnt need exchanges or fixed odds.
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Old 05-05-2022, 10:03 AM   #5
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Exchange wagering and 3rd party fixed odds operators do the same thing effectively - lower takeout. If anything US racing raises the effective takeout for the small better with the rebates to the computer guys.

But I agree, if a track had the balls to go to 5% WPS takeout and leave exotics the same, you wouldnt need exchanges or fixed odds.
exactly fixed odds will lower takeout. if you start getting 11.00 bucks on a two dollar bet. why will anyone bet to win on the tote that pays 10.

i know i will be betting fixed odds instead of PM.

make more money....the wave of the future.

Allan
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Old 05-05-2022, 10:10 AM   #6
Andy Asaro
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Parimutel wagering done right is the best way IMO

Fixed odds is great unless you win consistently. If you win too much you get banned. I don't know about anyone else but I don't like banning anyone cuz of their skill in picking winners. IF there's a level playing field (same lower takeout rate for EVERYONE so EVERYONE has to try to win) then that's optimal for me.
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Old 05-05-2022, 10:36 AM   #7
biggestal99
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Parimutel wagering done right is the best way IMO

Fixed odds is great unless you win consistently. If you win too much you get banned. I don't know about anyone else but I don't like banning anyone cuz of their skill in picking winners. IF there's a level playing field (same lower takeout rate for EVERYONE so EVERYONE has to try to win) then that's optimal for me.
have you ever been to a racetrack in the UK.

the bookies take everyones money.

wise guys. newbies and everything in between

if they have an exposure they just lay it off on the exchange.

its a really good system.

Allan
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Old 05-05-2022, 10:47 AM   #8
Andy Asaro
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have you ever been to a racetrack in the UK.

the bookies take everyones money.

wise guys. newbies and everything in between

if they have an exposure they just lay it off on the exchange.

its a really good system.

Allan
At the U of A symposium last year https://betmakers.com/ was there. They weren't able to answer some obvious questions and admitted that people who win too much are cut off. I like the idea but they didn't make a good case IMO (And I spent time in their corporate room at the symposium talking with their top people)
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Old 05-05-2022, 12:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesome View Post
Exchange wagering and 3rd party fixed odds operators do the same thing effectively - lower takeout. If anything US racing raises the effective takeout for the small better with the rebates to the computer guys.

But I agree, if a track had the balls to go to 5% WPS takeout and leave exotics the same, you wouldnt need exchanges or fixed odds.
The small implementations that have appeared thus far do not lower the take. If anything, they actually raised them.

Don't get me wrong - they SHOULD do as you say. They just haven't.

The attitude seems to be that the bettor should pay more to know what the odds are.
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Old 05-05-2022, 12:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by biggestal99 View Post
have you ever been to a racetrack in the UK.

the bookies take everyones money.

wise guys. newbies and everything in between

if they have an exposure they just lay it off on the exchange.

its a really good system.

Allan
Although I've not looked in a long time, the takeout (back when I looked) was certainly higher than BetFair.

I think that's really the point: As I said in my previous post - if the bettor wants to know what the odds are, it's going to cost more."

BTW, the takeout for winning players is different than for everyone else. The difference is that BF takes an extra percentage when you withdraw or periodically.

There are 2 reasons that BF couldn't make it in the US.
1. Whales were going to face a higher takeout because of their profitability. Without them (and the other winners), the handle would never rival pari-mutuel.

2. Exotic betting - beyond 2 horses - is pretty much impossible in exchange wagering.

I am more than willing to be told that all this has changed since I considered getting involved back in 2015.

Last edited by Dave Schwartz; 05-05-2022 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 05-05-2022, 01:13 PM   #11
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you guys that like fixed odds must think that you can walk up to guy and he is going to always take your bet for the amount you want, WRONG
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Old 05-06-2022, 08:07 AM   #12
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you guys that like fixed odds must think that you can walk up to guy and he is going to always take your bet for the amount you want, WRONG
in jersey fixed odds, the operators MUST take bets up to winning 5,000 on win bets

2,000 on place and show bets.

Allan
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Old 05-06-2022, 09:15 AM   #13
lamboguy
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in jersey fixed odds, the operators MUST take bets up to winning 5,000 on win bets

2,000 on place and show bets.

Allan
you have to be 100% nuts. there ain't no way in hell that you can plunk down a $5000 bet on a fixed-odds basis. you might have mistaken a number like you can win up to $5000, and i highly doubt that too! the other part of your post is bazaaro as well. with the place and show wagers.
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Old 05-06-2022, 09:33 AM   #14
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you have to be 100% nuts. there ain't no way in hell that you can plunk down a $5000 bet on a fixed-odds basis. you might have mistaken a number like you can win up to $5000, and i highly doubt that too! the other part of your post is bazaaro as well. with the place and show wagers.

sorry i was wrong, its 2500.

here are the rules

https://global.racing/wp-content/upl...-APR-28-22.pdf

BETTING OBLIGATIONS OF BOOKMAKERS
Any Bookmaker Betting on a racetrack offering Fixed Odds against a horse and conducting face-to-face Betting via cash or account, is required to accept a Fixed Odds bet in the categories described below up to the maximum amounts for the Bookmaker to lose as specified below, with amounts greater than subject to referral:

Monmouth Park Race Meeting
a. In any one win or win/place/show: to lose $2,500 on day of actual race day
b. In any one place or show Bet: to lose $1,000 on day of actual race day

see the word REQUIRED.

Allan
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Old 05-06-2022, 09:45 AM   #15
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