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05-03-2022, 08:49 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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As sports betting expands, horse racing faces an 'essential' need to adapt
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05-03-2022, 10:31 AM
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#2
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,878
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Andy,
Good post & good idea.
Alas, this "need" has been around for 3 decades but tracks always go towards making it worse rather than better.
ALWAYS.
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05-03-2022, 10:51 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,661
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i certainly don't think that exchange or fixed odds wagering does anything for racing at all. the system of pari-mutual is the best one that i can see if it is implemented properly.
racing's problems are mainly that the game has scared the fans away from the game due to unequal playing fields, whether you own the horse or bet on them.
when you think about it, if the Yankees had 40 players on their roster and other teams could only have 28, who do you think would win all the games?
its really not any different in horse racing. i see major stakes races out in California where all they can muster up is a 5 horse field and the same trainer has 4 of them.
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05-03-2022, 08:43 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 242
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Exchange wagering and 3rd party fixed odds operators do the same thing effectively - lower takeout. If anything US racing raises the effective takeout for the small better with the rebates to the computer guys.
But I agree, if a track had the balls to go to 5% WPS takeout and leave exotics the same, you wouldnt need exchanges or fixed odds.
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05-05-2022, 10:03 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesome
Exchange wagering and 3rd party fixed odds operators do the same thing effectively - lower takeout. If anything US racing raises the effective takeout for the small better with the rebates to the computer guys.
But I agree, if a track had the balls to go to 5% WPS takeout and leave exotics the same, you wouldnt need exchanges or fixed odds.
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exactly fixed odds will lower takeout. if you start getting 11.00 bucks on a two dollar bet. why will anyone bet to win on the tote that pays 10.
i know i will be betting fixed odds instead of PM.
make more money....the wave of the future.
Allan
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05-05-2022, 10:10 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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Parimutel wagering done right is the best way IMO
Fixed odds is great unless you win consistently. If you win too much you get banned. I don't know about anyone else but I don't like banning anyone cuz of their skill in picking winners. IF there's a level playing field (same lower takeout rate for EVERYONE so EVERYONE has to try to win) then that's optimal for me.
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05-05-2022, 10:36 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
Parimutel wagering done right is the best way IMO
Fixed odds is great unless you win consistently. If you win too much you get banned. I don't know about anyone else but I don't like banning anyone cuz of their skill in picking winners. IF there's a level playing field (same lower takeout rate for EVERYONE so EVERYONE has to try to win) then that's optimal for me.
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have you ever been to a racetrack in the UK.
the bookies take everyones money.
wise guys. newbies and everything in between
if they have an exposure they just lay it off on the exchange.
its a really good system.
Allan
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05-05-2022, 10:47 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99
have you ever been to a racetrack in the UK.
the bookies take everyones money.
wise guys. newbies and everything in between
if they have an exposure they just lay it off on the exchange.
its a really good system.
Allan
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At the U of A symposium last year https://betmakers.com/ was there. They weren't able to answer some obvious questions and admitted that people who win too much are cut off. I like the idea but they didn't make a good case IMO (And I spent time in their corporate room at the symposium talking with their top people)
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05-05-2022, 12:05 PM
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#9
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesome
Exchange wagering and 3rd party fixed odds operators do the same thing effectively - lower takeout. If anything US racing raises the effective takeout for the small better with the rebates to the computer guys.
But I agree, if a track had the balls to go to 5% WPS takeout and leave exotics the same, you wouldnt need exchanges or fixed odds.
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The small implementations that have appeared thus far do not lower the take. If anything, they actually raised them.
Don't get me wrong - they SHOULD do as you say. They just haven't.
The attitude seems to be that the bettor should pay more to know what the odds are.
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05-05-2022, 12:12 PM
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#10
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99
have you ever been to a racetrack in the UK.
the bookies take everyones money.
wise guys. newbies and everything in between
if they have an exposure they just lay it off on the exchange.
its a really good system.
Allan
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Although I've not looked in a long time, the takeout (back when I looked) was certainly higher than BetFair.
I think that's really the point: As I said in my previous post - if the bettor wants to know what the odds are, it's going to cost more."
BTW, the takeout for winning players is different than for everyone else. The difference is that BF takes an extra percentage when you withdraw or periodically.
There are 2 reasons that BF couldn't make it in the US.
1. Whales were going to face a higher takeout because of their profitability. Without them (and the other winners), the handle would never rival pari-mutuel.
2. Exotic betting - beyond 2 horses - is pretty much impossible in exchange wagering.
I am more than willing to be told that all this has changed since I considered getting involved back in 2015.
Last edited by Dave Schwartz; 05-05-2022 at 12:13 PM.
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05-05-2022, 01:13 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,661
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you guys that like fixed odds must think that you can walk up to guy and he is going to always take your bet for the amount you want, WRONG
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05-06-2022, 08:07 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
you guys that like fixed odds must think that you can walk up to guy and he is going to always take your bet for the amount you want, WRONG
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in jersey fixed odds, the operators MUST take bets up to winning 5,000 on win bets
2,000 on place and show bets.
Allan
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05-06-2022, 09:15 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99
in jersey fixed odds, the operators MUST take bets up to winning 5,000 on win bets
2,000 on place and show bets.
Allan
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you have to be 100% nuts. there ain't no way in hell that you can plunk down a $5000 bet on a fixed-odds basis. you might have mistaken a number like you can win up to $5000, and i highly doubt that too! the other part of your post is bazaaro as well. with the place and show wagers.
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05-06-2022, 09:33 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
you have to be 100% nuts. there ain't no way in hell that you can plunk down a $5000 bet on a fixed-odds basis. you might have mistaken a number like you can win up to $5000, and i highly doubt that too! the other part of your post is bazaaro as well. with the place and show wagers.
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sorry i was wrong, its 2500.
here are the rules
https://global.racing/wp-content/upl...-APR-28-22.pdf
BETTING OBLIGATIONS OF BOOKMAKERS
Any Bookmaker Betting on a racetrack offering Fixed Odds against a horse and conducting face-to-face Betting via cash or account, is required to accept a Fixed Odds bet in the categories described below up to the maximum amounts for the Bookmaker to lose as specified below, with amounts greater than subject to referral:
Monmouth Park Race Meeting
a. In any one win or win/place/show: to lose $2,500 on day of actual race day
b. In any one place or show Bet: to lose $1,000 on day of actual race day
see the word REQUIRED.
Allan
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05-06-2022, 09:45 AM
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#15
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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