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Old 05-09-2017, 01:30 PM   #1
EasyGoer89
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Betting menu discussion

A few ideas:

There have been supers at Santa Anita in 4 horse fields w dime min, please, for the love of God, alter the menu so that this doesn't happen, fields of 8 or less should have supers at 1 dollar. Check out super prices at Churchill for Fri n Sat they were great, including one that paid 88 grand which never would have paid 8800 for a dime if there was a dime break.

I'd also love to see a track have one designated race a day where the minimum tri is 5 bucks, or minimum exa at 10, can't we have ONE race like this, or does every body have to be able to hit every bet?

I don't even want to get into this jackpot stuff, I guess it has its place, I don't like that all these tracks are piggybacking the idea that I think was pioneered by gulf w rainbow, now we have these scam bets polluting the menu at almost every track.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:40 PM   #2
thaskalos
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You'll see the PENNY-super, before you'll ever see the resurrection of the dollar-super. And the fields will continue to shrink. But, hey...at least our wager "win-percentage" will improve. You can't have everything...
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:45 PM   #3
EasyGoer89
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You'll see the PENNY-super, before you'll ever see the resurrection of the dollar-super. And the fields will continue to shrink. But, hey...at least our wager "win-percentage" will improve. You can't have everything...
Funny how we will see the penny bet and yet, they'll still not give us our breakage.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:45 PM   #4
Poindexter
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Originally Posted by EasyGoer89 View Post
A few ideas:

There have been supers at Santa Anita in 4 horse fields w dime min, please, for the love of God, alter the menu so that this doesn't happen, fields of 8 or less should have supers at 1 dollar. Check out super prices at Churchill for Fri n Sat they were great, including one that paid 88 grand which never would have paid 8800 for a dime if there was a dime break.

I'd also love to see a track have one designated race a day where the minimum tri is 5 bucks, or minimum exa at 10, can't we have ONE race like this, or does every body have to be able to hit every bet?

I don't even want to get into this jackpot stuff, I guess it has its place, I don't like that all these tracks are piggybacking the idea that I think was pioneered by gulf w rainbow, now we have these scam bets polluting the menu at almost every track.
Why dont you just graduate to the super high 5 with carryovers. $1 minimums at most places, lots of carryovers, positive expectation pools and good value. Fwiw, in the right spots I think these are the best bet in racing. I think every track should do the $1 miniimum rolling super high 5's with carryovers.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:56 PM   #5
SoCalCircuit
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Any explanation as to why NYRA ditched the late p5 on 10 race cards?
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:24 PM   #6
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Any explanation as to why NYRA ditched the late p5 on 10 race cards?



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Old 05-09-2017, 06:46 PM   #7
EasyGoer89
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Originally Posted by Poindexter View Post
Why dont you just graduate to the super high 5 with carryovers. $1 minimums at most places, lots of carryovers, positive expectation pools and good value. Fwiw, in the right spots I think these are the best bet in racing. I think every track should do the $1 miniimum rolling super high 5's with carryovers.
I love those Pentas, I play them, I agree, the buck minimum makes it worthwhile.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:48 PM   #8
Andy Asaro
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Any explanation as to why NYRA ditched the late p5 on 10 race cards?
Doesn't do well unless it is offered every day. IMO, they don't want to offer it in the later races every day because the takeout is too low. Same reason Ca. doesn't offer it in the later races.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:55 AM   #9
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Doesn't do well unless it is offered every day. IMO, they don't want to offer it in the later races every day because the takeout is too low. Same reason Ca. doesn't offer it in the later races.
Agreed. There has to be some consistency in the presentation. If there is going to be a second pick five any time there is ten races or more it would only take place on certain days and some customers might not even be aware of it. As it is, the pick 5 starting in the first race is already firmly planted in the bettor's mind and helps with handle on the early races that seem to lag behind handle wise compared to the later ones. Add to that, offering a late pick 5 has seemed to cannibalize the late pick 4. I know the general way of thinking is that if a player gets knocked out in the first leg they already handicapped the rest of the pick 4 sequence, but you are also moving from a 15% take in the pick 5 to a 24% in the pick 4. With the significant change in the takeout why have it take affect the pick 4?

That said, the pick 5 is my favorite wager. I say we have rolling pick 5s!
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:12 PM   #10
EasyGoer89
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Agreed. There has to be some consistency in the presentation. If there is going to be a second pick five any time there is ten races or more it would only take place on certain days and some customers might not even be aware of it. As it is, the pick 5 starting in the first race is already firmly planted in the bettor's mind and helps with handle on the early races that seem to lag behind handle wise compared to the later ones. Add to that, offering a late pick 5 has seemed to cannibalize the late pick 4. I know the general way of thinking is that if a player gets knocked out in the first leg they already handicapped the rest of the pick 4 sequence, but you are also moving from a 15% take in the pick 5 to a 24% in the pick 4. With the significant change in the takeout why have it take affect the pick 4?

That said, the pick 5 is my favorite wager. I say we have rolling pick 5s!
Wow rolling pick 5! I'd be ok with that at the current take rate! This way, bettors can play the 5 races on the card they actually like vs playing the 5 that get forced on us.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:35 PM   #11
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Hoosier Park Harness has a 12% takeout, 20 cent miminimum, no jackpot Super high 5 in the last race. I would to see that on every track's betting menu, as opposed to the ridiculous jackpot versions that almost never come down until there is a mandatory payout.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:54 PM   #12
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I can remember in the 1980's Louisiana Downs had a $5 minimum exacta bet.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:17 PM   #13
Andy Asaro
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Hoosier Park Harness has a 12% takeout, 20 cent miminimum, no jackpot Super high 5 in the last race. I would to see that on every track's betting menu, as opposed to the ridiculous jackpot versions that almost never come down until there is a mandatory payout.
Even though it's 12% pool size is probably small. Ran into similar with Canterbury P4's and 5's. Not worth playing into small pool IMO
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:33 PM   #14
EasyGoer89
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I can remember in the 1980's Louisiana Downs had a $5 minimum exacta bet.
Santa Anita had something similar I think.

I'd love to see the 5 dollar exa reinvented in calif In races of 11 and up!
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:29 PM   #15
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Even though it's 12% pool size is probably small. Ran into similar with Canterbury P4's and 5's. Not worth playing into small pool IMO
Small pools sizes do suck because every time you hit you slice the pie. For instance last night was a $6000 pool, it paid $1800. IF you hit, the $1800 becomes $1350. But you do something like this at a Saratoga, with a 12 horse field and the pools should be huge and a lot of fun and opportunity for small players

Also, on the other hand with small pools you can scoop a pool or get a big chunk of one on a fairly easy to hit combo, so it works both way. Also I think the small pools probably chase a lot of sharper bettors away making your competition a lot easier to beat.

The recreational player already has no chance. Do they get anything? Most racetracks have one low takeout bet, a 50 cent pick 5. For the typical recreational player putting in $24 to $36(which is probably hefty for many of them) they will lose day after day. That affords them a ticket of say 3x3x4x2x1. Which give them at best .7*.7*.75*.5*.4 or about a 7.5 % chance of hitting. On a bad streak they can go 30 or 40. in a row without hitting. If they throw in some value horses there chances of hitting goes way down and the streaks can get worse. When they stick with the obvious, even when they hit, they do not get back much(since they are doing the same thing that other small bettors are doing). I know players like the low takeout pick 5 as do I, but there is absolutley no logic in putting the low takeout on a pick 5 instead of a pick 4 if you want to increase the longevity of the recreational player.

A low takeout 20 cent super would be good for all players, big and small alike, as would a 20 cent pick six etc. If the big players aren't interested who cares, they have betting opportuniies and rebates all day long. Give the small recreational a player a chance to make money and have fun without paying an extra 30%(or whatever) jackpot tax. Even if the tracks can show me data that they get significantly more money bet on a jackpot type wager, I simpy rebut the harm done to your betting base far exceeds any benefits the track receives with extra betting.

The sport cannot grow on its existing customer base(which diminishes every year). It has to build and nurture a new one.
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