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Old 09-08-2020, 06:19 PM   #16
SandyW
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Originally Posted by Valuist View Post
The other 10 horses DID race and completed the race. The one horse overcame traffic to get up. Oh yeah, it never happened. At least that's what I assume. We know all wagers were refunded but I believe there was no purse distribution, and THAT is wrong.

The one horse overcame some traffic to get up and win, but won't collect that $54k portion of the purse. As bettors we get screwed plenty. In this case, the horsemen were screwed. Horses don't have unlimited bullets to fire. Brad Cox and Bridgmohan have reason to be upset.
From the track purse account:
$5,000 given to each of the 12 horses in the race, and $500 given to each jockey.
There were several other horses in the race that were not ready and were held back by the starters assistants, that is why the race was called a no contest.

Last edited by SandyW; 09-08-2020 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:27 PM   #17
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No effect of an unprepared start? Are you kidding? Watch the head on. Not one horse had a prepared start!
If all the runners weren't prepared then no one or two horses were given an unfair advantage.

46 and 1:11 and change for the pace. They all apparently recovered pretty quickly.

Last edited by Valuist; 09-09-2020 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 09-09-2020, 11:52 PM   #18
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If all the runners weren't prepared then no one or two horses were given an unfair advantage.

46 and 1:11 and change for the pace. They all apparently recovered pretty quickly.
Neither of these things proves what you think it proves.

If you have 5 horses/jockeys unprepared, that doesn't mean they are equally unprepared. And one reaction to being unprepared might be to panic and try and race back into position, which will result in FAST, not slow fractions, especially since runups aren't timed.
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:42 PM   #19
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I don't buy that. These machines were perfected in 1940. The technology isn't complicated and they test the gates periodically. This has got to be human error.
Its anyone's guess.
I must say, its easy to kick someone when they make a mistake.
My best guess is there was a glitch.
All it takes is a power spike in the switch that closes the circuit that releases the magnets that hold the stall gates closed.
If you're thinking the starter had an 'itchy trigger finger" meh.....Possible, but not likely
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:56 PM   #20
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You can see the starter is completely out of position and body language is one of shock when the gates opened. Therefore it's either button accidentally pressed or gate malfunction. My understanding is that the gates are held shut by electrical charge and the starter opens the gates by cutting the circuit. Therefore all it would take is a small short circuit or power jump and the gates will fly open.

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Old 09-10-2020, 10:31 PM   #21
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You can see the starter is completely out of position and body language is one of shock when the gates opened. Therefore it's either button accidentally pressed or gate malfunction. My understanding is that the gates are held shut by electrical charge and the starter opens the gates by cutting the circuit. Therefore all it would take is a small short circuit or power jump and the gates will fly open.
Simtrak gates used in Australia, employ a mechanism which opens a circuit that releases the magnets holding the stall gates closed. In other words, the system is "power on"( normally closed circuit). When the starter presses the button, the power circuit opens, cutting power to the magnets which allows the stal gates to open.
Other gate manufacturers use an "inferior" or normally open, type circuit in which the stall gates are 'passive magnets". When the starter presses the button, the circuit closes which sends the current to the magnets to release the stall gates.
Most North American gates are made by United/Puett. I believe these operate as described in the former. Same as Simtrak.
https://www.unitedpuett.com/history
"On the existing United Puett gate, the front gates are held together with magnets which are deactivated when electricity running to the magnets is cut off by the starter. On the new gate, a bar runs across the top of the gate that turns, lifting and releasing latches on the fronts of the stalls."
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Old 09-11-2020, 05:33 AM   #22
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Its anyone's guess.
I must say, its easy to kick someone when they make a mistake.
My best guess is there was a glitch.
Tend to agree with you here.

Meanwhile, it's a fun meet, the values and returns so far have been really great, esp. on Wednesday and Thursday so far. Can build a really nice bankroll playing this track. One of my favorite short meets where you don't have to play chalk to win big.
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Old 09-11-2020, 09:43 AM   #23
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Kentucky Downs has a lot of "glitches".

A $500,000 Stakes race was held up over 30 minutes past post time on Thursday, due to a power outage in the TV truck.

The horses were saddled, came on the track, warmed up, returned to the paddock, were unsaddled, then 30 minutes later re-saddled, re-entered the track, and then pretty much went straight to the gate.

You can't make this stuff up!!!
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:15 AM   #24
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Kentucky Downs has a lot of "glitches".

A $500,000 Stakes race was held up over 30 minutes past post time on Thursday, due to a power outage in the TV truck.

The horses were saddled, came on the track, warmed up, returned to the paddock, were unsaddled, then 30 minutes later re-saddled, re-entered the track, and then pretty much went straight to the gate.

You can't make this stuff up!!!
The second half kickoff at Super Bowl I was rekicked because television wasn't back from it's commercials.
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Old 09-12-2020, 01:39 AM   #25
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Most starting gates work by virtue of magnets on the gates holding them closed, and need electricity to do that. When the starter presses the button he is actually cutting power to the system allowing the gates to spring open.

Given the nature of Kentucky Downs, it's doubtful they have electricity around the course since I don't even think they have a beam timing system there.

My guess it that the starting gate runs off of something like a car battery and no one checked it at the start of the meet (it worked last time we used it!) and at some point in the ill-fated race the battery charge wasn't enough to hold the doors closed.
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Old 09-12-2020, 04:24 AM   #26
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I was very surprised the race wasn't halted/recalled. I haven't seen it very often with thoroughbreds, so maybe most tracks don't plan for it, but you see it in harness racing all the time. There were several jockeys looking around after the start, looking to me like they were expecting a signal to pull up the horses. It can introduce other problems, like when a horse breaks through the gate runs 3 furlongs, gets caught by an outrider, is reloaded, and then runs dead last after the restart.

Considering all the time and effort that goes into training a horse, as a trainer or owner I wouldn't be happy seeing my horse pushed on after an obviously flawed beginning. And obvious "no contest" ruling.

But at least KD did distribute $66,000 of the $90,000 purse to the connections, which was a pretty solid way to address the incident.
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:19 AM   #27
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Most starting gates work by virtue of magnets on the gates holding them closed, and need electricity to do that. When the starter presses the button he is actually cutting power to the system allowing the gates to spring open.

Given the nature of Kentucky Downs, it's doubtful they have electricity around the course since I don't even think they have a beam timing system there.

My guess it that the starting gate runs off of something like a car battery and no one checked it at the start of the meet (it worked last time we used it!) and at some point in the ill-fated race the battery charge wasn't enough to hold the doors closed.
I've been looking for some technical info on these things. I haven't found a wiring diagram on current models, but I have seen some patents that described how they work. From what I've seen, you're correct in that they use a battery. The starter does not directly cut the power to the magnets, though. That's too much current to be passing through the switch and would be unsafe. Rather, his button is on a low-current circuit that energizes a relay that, in turn, drops the current from the magnets. This is the sort of fail-safe design that you'd expect on something that's been around for many years.

I don't buy your dead battery theory, though. I suspect they check the battery each day, and it would be a simple matter to put a warning light if it ran low on charge. Also, if the battery became weak, I wouldn't expect all the gates to open at the same time. The weakest ones would open, and I suspect that the assistant starters would notice that something was wrong when they closed the gates.

If this were really some sort of glitch with the gate, it should have been taken out of service immediately and not used again until the problem was diagnosed and fixed. I wasn't there, but it sure looks like the same gate was used for the next race. The only way that should happen is if they knew EXACTLY what caused the mis-start, and that it wouldn't recur.

Unless the details are made known, it seems to me that someone hit the switch by mistake.
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Old 09-12-2020, 10:41 AM   #28
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Tend to agree with you here.

Meanwhile, it's a fun meet, the values and returns so far have been really great, esp. on Wednesday and Thursday so far. Can build a really nice bankroll playing this track. One of my favorite short meets where you don't have to play chalk to win big.
Which meet CAN you play chalk and win big?
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