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Old 05-15-2017, 10:56 AM   #46
chiguy
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Originally Posted by EasyGoer89 View Post
Super would have paid way less than 7500 if dime was offered.
Okay let's say it paid $2k, for a casual to make 2k on a dime increment bet would have been big. The idea is that the dime gives the casuals who only come out a couple of times a year a shot at making some real money. I really believe it is dumb for CD to do this on the derby. Keep the high five at $1 if you want but let the super be a dime.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:02 AM   #47
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I'm happy he won the pick 6...
Funny how they never post their losing pick 6 tickets....or any losing tickets for that matter.

Here's hoping he's even for the year at least. After all, he's a yuuuuuuuggggggeeeee bettor and $35k might not cover much for a yuuuuuuuuuggggeeee bettor

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 05-15-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:00 PM   #48
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I can remember in the 1980's Louisiana Downs had a $5 minimum exacta bet.
When I first started at Longacres in 1982, there was a $2 DD on the first 2 races, a $5 exacta on race 6 and 10, and $2 WPS on all 10 races. THAT WAS IT. That was your betting menu. I think the first deviation from that was in the mid 80s when they introduced a $3 trifecta on the featured 9th race.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:20 PM   #49
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Funny how they never post their losing pick 6 tickets....or any losing tickets for that matter.

Here's hoping he's even for the year at least. After all, he's a yuuuuuuuggggggeeeee bettor and $35k might not cover much for a yuuuuuuuuuggggeeee bettor

EmD probably bought a year's supply of his favorite mouthwash.


And, well, everybody here knows what brand that is...


The strange part is his having suddenly wagered on a track that had $35K in a payout pool???
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:01 PM   #50
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Okay let's say it paid $2k, for a casual to make 2k on a dime increment bet would have been big. The idea is that the dime gives the casuals who only come out a couple of times a year a shot at making some real money. I really believe it is dumb for CD to do this on the derby. Keep the high five at $1 if you want but let the super be a dime.
Racing is doing too much for the casuals while ignoring the hard cores.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:16 PM   #51
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Racing is doing too much for the casuals while ignoring the hard cores.


That is completely upside-down thinking.


The reason the casuals have left in droves is because racing is only entertaining the hard cores with each and every silly move.


Do you think it is the 'casuals' who give a sh*t about two percentage points in the pick-4 takeout?


The Canterbury cluelessness should have taught you that much.


Anyone with any true understanding can figure out that unless the "casuals" return in vast numbers, racing can only continue its present death spiral.

So you have to at least reverse what drove them away before you have any hope of bringing them back.


It's like politics and taxes. Nobody wants to pay more taxes, but there is something to be gained, at least somewhere, from greater tax revenue.

The parallel is that management of the process completely sucks in each scenario (politicians and track management).
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:23 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
That is completely upside-down thinking.


The reason the casuals have left in droves is because racing is only entertaining the hard cores with each and every silly move.


Do you think it is the 'casuals' who give a sh*t about two percentage points in the pick-4 takeout?


The Canterbury cluelessness should have taught you that much.


Anyone with any true understanding can figure out that unless the "casuals" return in vast numbers, racing can only continue its present death spiral.

So you have to at least reverse what drove them away before you have any hope of bringing them back.


It's like politics and taxes. Nobody wants to pay more taxes, but there is something to be gained, at least somewhere, from greater tax revenue.

The parallel is that management of the process completely sucks in each scenario (politicians and track management).
If you're not keeping current customers feet warm how can you expect them to promote the game to anyone else?
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:50 PM   #53
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You seem confused.

Track management is who should be promoting the game to everyone else.

Instead, management is overcome by EmD's apparent quest for more mouthwash.


An industry doing none of its own promotion, and instead depending upon a bunch of old geezers to do its promotion for it, is an industry tethered to a certain path toward its own demise.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:54 PM   #54
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You seem confused.

Track management is who should be promoting the game to everyone else.

Instead, management is overcome by EmD's apparent quest for more mouthwash.


An industry doing none of its own promotion, and instead depending upon a bunch of old geezers to do its promotion for it, is an industry tethered to a certain path toward its own demise.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...ial-media/amp/
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:30 PM   #55
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ROFL

(without clicking on your link)

I can just envision a bunch of old geezers gathered around a barber shop:


(the one in sixteen who ever wastes one breath at a horse race venue says: )


"Hey you guys, there's a 14% low-takeout pick-11 at Cahokia Downs tomorrow!

You guys ought to show up and play it"



The lone response is:

"What? When was the last time Cahokia Downs filled 11 races for a single day?"


(and then they go back to taking turns reading the outdated issues of 'Golf' Magazine there at the shop)



Word-of-mouth might work when you're a bunch of hot teen girls discussing where the group will show up later (sometimes for reasons not at all connected to the destination).

But when a bunch of has-beens with minimal representation ON social media are spreading the word about a has-been sport it's like a tree falling deep in the forest with nobody around to hear it (and where anybody nearby wouldn't be able to hear too well anyway)
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:08 AM   #56
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So the dime super on the Preakness paid 816.28 in a 10 horse field. I think the idea of the dime super on big days when you get a bunch of casual fans is a good idea. I hope CD changes back to a dime for next years derby.
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Old 05-23-2017, 08:04 PM   #57
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Do you think it is the 'casuals' who give a sh*t about two percentage points in the pick-4 takeout?
This is spot on. This whole discussion involving takeout is ridiculous. The only people that care about takeout are hard core players who play every day. I'll tell you this, 90% of the crowd at Churchill Downs on Derby Day couldn't even tell you what takeout means if you asked them.

Takeout is an important thing to keep in check but is only visible to those who are waist deep in this game.

There are three things keeping the masses away from this game. If you fix these three things, you have a chance:
1. Too complicated (betting and understanding the information)
2. Too much down time between races
3. Lack of High Def

Find a way to engage people in the betting and information aspect of the game and they may stick around to learn more about. Not sure how you do that but that is a major deterrent.

A 5 to 6 hour window of time for what amounts to roughly 15 minutes of actual excitement is a huge turnoff. Huge! We may be ok with it because we enjoy handicapping and structuring bets. Have you ever been to the track with someone that doesn't like that part of the game? They are bored into oblivion for 85% of their time at the track. That is what they remember when they leave (unless they hit something big).

The viewing experience is awful, for the most part. No HD, trees and structures in the way, same colored saddlecloths.
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Old 05-23-2017, 08:56 PM   #58
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This is spot on. This whole discussion involving takeout is ridiculous. The only people that care about takeout are hard core players who play every day. I'll tell you this, 90% of the crowd at Churchill Downs on Derby Day couldn't even tell you what takeout means if you asked them.

Takeout is an important thing to keep in check but is only visible to those who are waist deep in this game.

There are three things keeping the masses away from this game. If you fix these three things, you have a chance:
1. Too complicated (betting and understanding the information)
2. Too much down time between races
3. Lack of High Def

Find a way to engage people in the betting and information aspect of the game and they may stick around to learn more about. Not sure how you do that but that is a major deterrent.

A 5 to 6 hour window of time for what amounts to roughly 15 minutes of actual excitement is a huge turnoff. Huge! We may be ok with it because we enjoy handicapping and structuring bets. Have you ever been to the track with someone that doesn't like that part of the game? They are bored into oblivion for 85% of their time at the track. That is what they remember when they leave (unless they hit something big).

The viewing experience is awful, for the most part. No HD, trees and structures in the way, same colored saddlecloths.
Fantastic post..!

The High Definition aspect of the horses parading and racing is without a doubt one of the best angles marketers simply must employ in our current and progressive technological environment...

Some tracks have really high quality "race-around" views with circulating cameras that "run" adjacent to the horses...I simply love that kind of show...!

With high definition TV's getting less expensive...these really bring the excitement close up...
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:26 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Track Phantom View Post
This is spot on. This whole discussion involving takeout is ridiculous. The only people that care about takeout are hard core players who play every day. I'll tell you this, 90% of the crowd at Churchill Downs on Derby Day couldn't even tell you what takeout means if you asked them.

Takeout is an important thing to keep in check but is only visible to those who are waist deep in this game.

There are three things keeping the masses away from this game. If you fix these three things, you have a chance:
1. Too complicated (betting and understanding the information)
2. Too much down time between races
3. Lack of High Def

Find a way to engage people in the betting and information aspect of the game and they may stick around to learn more about. Not sure how you do that but that is a major deterrent.

A 5 to 6 hour window of time for what amounts to roughly 15 minutes of actual excitement is a huge turnoff. Huge! We may be ok with it because we enjoy handicapping and structuring bets. Have you ever been to the track with someone that doesn't like that part of the game? They are bored into oblivion for 85% of their time at the track. That is what they remember when they leave (unless they hit something big).

The viewing experience is awful, for the most part. No HD, trees and structures in the way, same colored saddlecloths.
On the "downtime" thing---the last time I was at a track everyone was betting about 10 different tracks at once. How much downtime was there when races were going off every two minutes around the country (obviously this applies to weekend afternoons only, but that's when 98% of the casual players would be at a track anyway)? If you're going to say that only the hardcore gamblers are betting that many tracks, maybe so, but you're not turning any casual player into the hardcore fan just by cutting time between races from 30 to 25 minutes so then there is no solution.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:08 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Track Phantom View Post
This is spot on. This whole discussion involving takeout is ridiculous. The only people that care about takeout are hard core players who play every day. I'll tell you this, 90% of the crowd at Churchill Downs on Derby Day couldn't even tell you what takeout means if you asked them.

Takeout is an important thing to keep in check but is only visible to those who are waist deep in this game.

There are three things keeping the masses away from this game. If you fix these three things, you have a chance:
1. Too complicated (betting and understanding the information)
2. Too much down time between races
3. Lack of High Def

Find a way to engage people in the betting and information aspect of the game and they may stick around to learn more about. Not sure how you do that but that is a major deterrent.

A 5 to 6 hour window of time for what amounts to roughly 15 minutes of actual excitement is a huge turnoff. Huge! We may be ok with it because we enjoy handicapping and structuring bets. Have you ever been to the track with someone that doesn't like that part of the game? They are bored into oblivion for 85% of their time at the track. That is what they remember when they leave (unless they hit something big).

The viewing experience is awful, for the most part. No HD, trees and structures in the way, same colored saddlecloths.
I wouldn't underestimate the fact that millennials understand that at most tracks the bets are bad value and that does have a major impact on their decision to play. If you look at the current generation of millennial gamblers, they like games where there are in control, of which horseracing should be on the list. Instead, they are gravitating to things like Daily Fantasy Sports and poker. DFS is just as involved as racing in terms of poring through information and making decisions and bets. And it is hard to argue that DFS is an action game. In football, you bet and wait three hours for a result. Yeah, it gives you a reason to watch multiple games, which is good for the sport. But your first two points are equally problems for DFS but they haven't affected the popularity of the play.

In regular sports betting, on a single game bet you have a payoff less than the natural odds, and it doesn't vary. At least in horse racing you can get payoffs well beyond natural odds, and that is one of the things horseracing should emphasize.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the need to address issues beyond the take, but I would still put take at the top of the list of things to correct. If horseracing became a fair betting game, it has a good chance to revitalize. Along with the other suggestions it has the potential to become the go to gambling game of skill.
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