POPS&TIPS

[betovernetcapper]

Is PA not taking on new advertisers? Maybe they've stopped printing rate cards. If so perhaps one of the authorized advertisers could Xerox theirs and share.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by artbaker

Again, I am not here to sell the program....

Then why are 2 out of your 4 lifetime posts doing just that?

[artbaker]

I just don't get it and I'm happy to leave the board especially if you truly believe I've been sent here by some corporation to sell a product.

This is a quote taken directly from my first post: "This is not a reason to go out and buy the program because, frankly, from what I've seen so far, the program doesn't fully exploit the TIPS methodology." I've repeated several times that the program picks themselves (at least in the current version) will not likely produce a positive ROI and that nobody should purchase this program without first inquiring into the whole TIPS methodology and throughly understanding the meaning of a "tipoff," which the program itself does not do in any detailed way.

My main reason for joining this conversation was to honor the life work of a dear old friend who taught more about handicapping than any other source ever did, that is, to acknowledge my mentor, Tom Worth I had the silly notion that I might do the same here for those interested in trying out this unique approach to handicapping, be kind of a mentor on TIPS. I went into detail on two races that produced blockbuster results to try to show how a TIPS player thinks about a certain type of Maiden Claiming Race that so many players find mystifying. I could have added a third race at FG, which fit exactly the same pattern on December 24 and produced a $59.00 winner as well (check out the 1 horse in the MCL race that day).

[shanta]

Originally Posted by betovernetcapper

Here's an idea, why not contact PA and become an authorized advertiser because that would end all thoughts of spam?

I agree 100% "Bet".

[betovernetcapper]

Originally Posted by artbaker

nobody should purchase this program

Art, I agree with you and based on this thread nobody is likely to. It's too bad PA stopped selling advertising space or they've run out of rate cards. An authorized advertiser does so much better.

[Lefty]

Art Baker not selling anything so he's not buying advertising space. It's too bad this board getting more about "busting chops"than constructive criticism.
A guy tries to help, and he gets discouraged from doing that. I started the thread cause I thght it would be interesting and informative. You have discouraged me from ever starting another one in this section. I run across any more interesting prgms i'll keep them to myself.

[shanta]

Originally Posted by Lefty

Art Baker not selling anything so he's not buying advertising space.

With all due respect Chuck go back and read the first sentence in your first post to start this thread. Nobody is selling anything?

My friend Ted took out an ad and he doesn't even have anything to "sell" yet ok? It's called respect for someone who does a lot for the racing community.

Richie

[betovernetcapper]

Lefty-doesn't it bother you that neither Len C or RPM has taken an ad?

[LEN C]

Wonderful. So the next wave of responses is now sending not so subtle pressure that giving PaceAdvantage money makes one more legitimate. While the non-administrative posts are bothersome enough, it was disappointing to see that an administrator is now implying that is Art peddling a product.

For the record, AGAIN, I wrote a program that a handful of people seem to like that is being distributed by a company. So far sales have been modest, but nowhere near what I had hoped them to be. Nobody is really cashing in big time on this.

For the record, AGAIN, NOBODY that has posted on this particular forum except myself is getting any financial gain from posting here. I get the gain because it is my job, and thus far, it has been modest. Posters such as Lefty and Art PAID for the program and are not getting any compensation in return.

For the record, AGAIN, I'm still not sure how you can have a forum category called "Horseracing Software" without someone inquiring about all the details about how to get it.

For the record, I did send an inquiry to PaceAdvantage about their rates for ads a week ago, and they did point me in the direction to find this information. EXCUSE ME, but a little thing called Christmas came up.

For the record, I am probably going to purchase SOMETHING in the category of ad space on PaceAdvantage soon, if for no other reason than to shut up this line of criticism. While I don't plan on diverting my original plan here to just have an exchange of ideas, I would also expect that if I did say that an Upgrade with a charge is going to be available in the future, that this post would not be deleted.

[shanta]

Originally Posted by LEN C

For the record, I am probably going to purchase SOMETHING in the category of ad space on PaceAdvantage soon, if for no other reason than to shut up this line of criticism.

There you go!

It's good karma Len. Also good from a business standpoint!

Richie
P.S. - I'm neither the dream police nor the fashion police

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Lefty

Art Baker not selling anything so he's not buying advertising space. It's too bad this board getting more about "busting chops"than constructive criticism.
A guy tries to help, and he gets discouraged from doing that. I started the thread cause I thght it would be interesting and informative. You have discouraged me from ever starting another one in this section. I run across any more interesting prgms i'll keep them to myself.

Here's a thought - everyone wanting to talk about the program so so, and everyone NOT wanting to talk about the program don't post. The thread flow would improves and those upset by all these "suspicious" posts could turn downt he stomache acid. What's worse, one guy sneaking in a phone number in or ten guys whining about it?

I was actually enjoying the thread and pulled out my old P&T and started reading it again.

[SAL]

I have the TIPS manual and would be happy to see Art Baker make more contributions to this methodology.

The methodology was a paper and pencil method for years until this program was developed. Now that there is a way to speed up the process via software I feel it would be a positive thing to discuss the use of the "method".

For someone not willing to purchase the program, but willing to learn the TIPS (I believe I paid $60 for my copy) a discussion can still be beneficial.

I too hope that Art Baker continues to post here as I think his insight would be valuable. Not everyone has a financial agenda.

[dartman51]

Originally Posted by betovernetcapper

I feel your pain. Here's an idea, why not contact PA and become an authorized advertiser because that would end all thoughts of spam?
I know it's the holidays, but PA is always on the case and I 'm sure he'll let you take an ad.

Oh, I see, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had to buy ad space here to comment here. In other words, if I'm an advertiser, I can say and do pretty much anything without being being belittled. Oh yeah, and what exactly is it you advertise here.

If I HAD anything to sell, I MIGHT consider an ad here, but I don't, so I won't. Can't we just have an informantive thread here without people getting their panties in a wad? Some of us here aren't making a fortune with our own "homegrown" program, so we look to places like this to find and learn new things. I think it is sad that one can't voice an opinion, or tell of something that works for them, without someone here thinking that they are a shill for some company. And, it's really pathetic when someone suggests that mabe one should take out an ad, as if that allows you a voice. Well, you don't have to worry about me, as this is my last post. I don't need the abuse, im already married.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by artbaker

I just don't get it and I'm happy to leave the board especially if you truly believe I've been sent here by some corporation to sell a product.

This is a quote taken directly from my first post: "This is not a reason to go out and buy the program because, frankly, from what I've seen so far, the program doesn't fully exploit the TIPS methodology." I've repeated several times that the program picks themselves (at least in the current version) will not likely produce a positive ROI and that nobody should purchase this program without first inquiring into the whole TIPS methodology and throughly understanding the meaning of a "tipoff," which the program itself does not do in any detailed way.

My main reason for joining this conversation was to honor the life work of a dear old friend who taught more about handicapping than any other source ever did, that is, to acknowledge my mentor, Tom Worth I had the silly notion that I might do the same here for those interested in trying out this unique approach to handicapping, be kind of a mentor on TIPS. I went into detail on two races that produced blockbuster results to try to show how a TIPS player thinks about a certain type of Maiden Claiming Race that so many players find mystifying. I could have added a third race at FG, which fit exactly the same pattern on December 24 and produced a $59.00 winner as well (check out the 1 horse in the MCL race that day).

Suspicion abounds because many of us have had negative experiences with RPM. I have never found any of their hyped-up claims methods and sytsems close to break even in reality.

We all learn from past events, and your examples could very well highlight proper application of the methodology.

I suggest however posting a few dozen plays before the races are run. With some comments about HOW a specific part of the Pops an Tips methodology applies. If you really want to mentor, a positive ROI going forward will dramatically increase both the number of your "students", and drastically increase Len Cs' revenues.

[Lefty]

Sorry guys but I started the thread and I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING. I didn't know unless the person selling the prgm took out an ad that no one was supposed to post. I got it now. It won't happen again.
hcap, you suggest a few dozen plays? Hey Wolsen posted plays, I bght his prgm and could never duplicate his success. So plays for a software prgm mean nothing. Everybody will use it differently.