Today's Daily NYRA Fiasco

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

Any points I have made regarding Saratoga are focused on the overall customer experience, on track in general and are not related to handle or the success or failure of people who bet and their selections.

The attendance figures are a pretty reliable barometer towards figuring out whether the customer is having a positive experience, don't you think?

So far...that barometer is pointing solidly in the positive direction.

According to this thread, we should expect a massive drop in attendance next year based on some of the comments here.

Do you think that is going to happen?

[Bustin Stones]

Rene Descartes prophesied that someday there would be a place that justified its existence by merely existing. A place so outstanding it would survive a nuclear exchange. And that everyone associated with it would live forever. That place is Saratoga racetrack.

[paulbenny]

I did not entitle it Daily NYRA Fiasco. NYRA is for the whole Racing Association. I know that Saratoga is the engine driving results and my comments are in regard to NYRA overall and specific to Saratoga in the circumstances where I believe tellers who worked there, and customers who have commented here provided insights along with working there nine years. I did not start this particular thread but do believe it could have been something titled differently. There are very few race meetings like Saratoga, or Keeneland either spring or fall currently that are gems in the rough.

Remember the analogy of the best dirty shirt in a batch of dirty laundry. Saratoga should be better than it is and certainly NYRA much better. Now that it is over, the reality of all the townspeople will be back to normal, and the problems in the city will continue but for several weeks things are good and so be it.

I love horse racing and had a great time at Great Barrington, Sportsman's etc. so my view is not the kind that fits because I love track people not tourists and people who are not totally all into racing and the cleaner shirt is not me I admit I like the less prolific situations.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by azeri98

Why is it awful from a handicapping and sporting perspective? Is it because its harder for you to pick winners. As far as from a sporting perspective nothing is worse than watching 2 really good horses, maybe could have been great ones have catastrophic breakdowns near the wire

You have absolutely no proof that synthetic tracks would have prevented a horse with an injury from breaking down. You're assuming the surface injured the horse and you have no idea if that is true.

[classhandicapper]

IMO, there are too many moving parts to make too big a deal about racetrack handle in any given year. I'd rather look at longer terms trends that take economic cycles and other things into account. There's no doubt this year a major contributor to the handle being down at Saratoga was the weather.

I say this about the industry in general.

I recently read that Walmart said inflation was up 20% compounded over the last 2 years. Without knowing any of the details about the cost structure of Saratoga or any other racetrack, I think we can at least be comfortable saying racetrack expenses are probably up quite a bit also.

So if handle is not up significantly, there are some serious problems brewing for the industry.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

The attendance figures are a pretty reliable barometer towards figuring out whether the customer is having a positive experience, don't you think?

Not to "rain" on the attendance figures because I don't know how they are calculated, but the NYRA haters on Twitter are asking if they count monthly and other passes as paid attendance even if the person doesn't show up.

I was there for the Whitney and Alabama. The customer experience was as good as ever those 2 days. In fact, I'd say it was better. The crowds were terrific but the betting lines seemed shorter than usual.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

Any points I have made regarding Saratoga are focused on the overall customer experience, on track in general and are not related to handle or the success or failure of people who bet and their selections.

A customer noted the track started early on the last day of the meeting, and my feedback was regarding that particular situation.

My more global opinion is that Saratoga is the engine that drives NYRA, and NYRA is not a public company, and its goals and objectives are not the same as a publicly traded company. The profit motive is different in a public company. It is a fact. NYRA could not survive without the casino revenue and other state actions that allowed it to have three brick and mortar venues. If it was private, things would have moved quicker on consolidation of brick and mortar. The shareholders would have been more active perhaps, and moreover the math would have been profound to move quicker than dragging this out for a long time to the detriment of the shareholders.

Kentucky is still the cradle of horse racing in the United States and will be for the foreseeable future as difficult as that may be for people who talk about Saratoga etc. Saratoga is over now, and now we have the misnamed Belmont at Aqueduct. Even I get confused on that.

This is a load of crap. New York is the epicenter of horse racing in this country. Kentucky leads the country, if not the world, in breeding, but there is a higher concentration of important races in NY. This isn't realistically debatable.

You keep repeating the same mantra, but have no actual personal experience here this year, as if you did, you wouldn't keep avoiding the question. Frankly, anyone actually bothering to read what you keep saying, would logically come to the conclusion that you have an axe to grind.

You said something in a later post about people that did attend this year expressing their feelings about the experience. Like the many people I saw, and spoke to, every day, these feelings were almost wholly positive. The bitching and moaning was clearly being done by people that weren't here. I can't blame them. I would be angry too if I couldn't come. It's a magical place.

[paulbenny]

I sincerely have no axe to grind. I grew up in Schenectady and used to go to the original OTBs when I had no money in the 1970s. I moved to Maryland and traveled to a lot of tracks 28 or so, many defunct and love racing. I worked there and enjoyed it. The few times I went I was not particularly happy and I enjoyed the bush tracks and certainly Laurel in the 1980s much more.

I now have the money to go to all those high profile restaurants and so forth and did not before and it is just my view. There is judgement involved in the race track experience position I take. I did not attend since I stopped working there because when you are a patron it is not the same as working there in terms of free access. That is irrefutable. So in that respect, it was a great experience for me. Whenever I went, the ability to actually make wagers in lines, in crowds, my decisions were not so good. It is as you know mostly on line now. Back in the day, it was more of a personal interaction experience.

My view on NY is it is in decline, and I am glad I no longer am part of it, because of a lot of things and when you balance out breeding, multiple tracks and access, the fun places are the mid-Atlantic year round and Kentucky. That is my opinion. NYRA is not fun in general to me although I always seem to enjoy Belmont or Aqueduct more because of the ability to actually not wait a long time. There is no axe to grind. I have better things to do. I do like to debate though and we all have our opinions. The best dirty shirt in the laundry may be Saratoga, but for what it is supposed to me, it it definitely should be improved and hopefully all the money for Belmont and strategies in the future will work. They are too long in coming. I look at this a business guy not a handicapper.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by the little guy

This is a load of crap. New York is the epicenter of horse racing in this country. Kentucky leads the country, if not the world, in breeding, but there is a higher concentration of important races in NY. This isn't realistically debatable.

You keep repeating the same mantra, but have no actual personal experience here this year, as if you did, you wouldn't keep avoiding the question. Frankly, anyone actually bothering to read what you keep saying, would logically come to the conclusion that you have an axe to grind.

You said something in a later post about people that did attend this year expressing their feelings about the experience. Like the many people I saw, and spoke to, every day, these feelings were almost wholly positive. The bitching and moaning was clearly being done by people that weren't here. I can't blame them. I would be angry too if I couldn't come. It's a magical place.

TLG I'm wondering if "PaulBenny" is a bot of some sort. It's like reading something produced by a machine.

I wasn't going to come this year. Been at least once for at least the last 20 years and probably more. Sort of lucked into a last minute trip due to personal circumstances and got a great room rate. Was with a great group of friends/horseplayers a few I've known for almost 45 years and a few I had just met this past weekend.

Just walking around town is cool and I'm not even talking about the horse racing stuff just the old buildings along Spring St and that sort of thing. Heard Cherie deVaux's sister serving as an impromptu tour guide to a few older/college kids at Oklahoma on Monday. Ran into Tom Amoss and told him he was funny (an honest compliment) at the track Sunday. Sat right where the horses exit the paddock across from The Post Bar both days. Watched Bruce Levine grimace after observing a bad work from one of his charges Monday morning. Talked to Morley's assistant John in that insane orange suit he was wearing Monday. Got my head handed to me and enjoyed every minute of it!

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

My view on NY is it is in decline,

Based on what metrics, Paul? You are stamping yourself as a well-informed insider, but this is nothing more than "I'm hearing big things, really big things". Are you measuring purses? Investments? Attendance? Handle? Real estate values? Brand values? Once you tell me what metric you are using, we can then compare the declining NY product versus another you think is improving.

Originally Posted by paulbenny

and I am glad I no longer am part of it,

And you have no axe to grind? If you are no longer part of the NY pyramid, why bother commenting incessantly like you are the go-to-guy in NY issues?

Originally Posted by paulbenny

because of a lot of things and when you balance out breeding,

Because NY Breds are failing?

Originally Posted by paulbenny

multiple tracks and access,

Because managing three venues is failing?

Originally Posted by paulbenny

the fun places are the mid-Atlantic year round and Kentucky.

Wait, are you seriously going to Pimlico and Timonium as the mid-Atlantic stalwarts? Wait, those are not year-round. So that takes out Keeneland also which gives you six weeks. So, your argument is predicated on Laurel, Churchill, and maybe Ellis Park cards. Have you been to Churchill when 3,000 are in attendance?

Originally Posted by paulbenny

That is my opinion. NYRA is not fun in general to me although I always seem to enjoy Belmont or Aqueduct more because of the ability to actually not wait a long time.

Wait, you enjoy BEL and AQU more? What do you think NYRA is?

Originally Posted by paulbenny

There is no axe to grind. I have better things to do. I do like to debate though and we all have our opinions.

OK - but your postings are unraveling here as they simply do not flow from point A to point B.

Originally Posted by paulbenny

The best dirty shirt in the laundry may be Saratoga, but for what it is supposed to me, it it definitely should be improved and hopefully all the money for Belmont and strategies in the future will work. They are too long in coming. I look at this a business guy not a handicapper.

You lost me at dirty shirt. On the one hand you are a customer experience expert and the next thing we know, you are a business guy. Enough, Paul. You have absolutely no idea what Saratoga does or does not need. As a customer experience guy, you first need to get a current view of the customer experience and I can tell you first hand that it does not come about as a result of being a debating, keyboard warrior.

[Brass Hat]

I've always thought Morley's guy John was a snappy dresser when he worked for Kelly Breen. Finally told him he looked sharp as he was coming in with his horse Monday. He looked at me like I was nuts.

I got killed at the window this meet, and the breakdowns were horrible, but the people at the track were great, including people I would just strike up a conversation with. Horseplayers are more interesting and friendly than the average person you run into.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by Brass Hat

I've always thought Morley's guy John was a snappy dresser when he worked for Kelly Breen. Finally told him he looked sharp as he was coming in with his horse Monday. He looked at me like I was nuts.

I got killed at the window this meet, and the breakdowns were horrible, but the people at the track were great, including people I would just strike up a conversation with. Horseplayers are more interesting and friendly than the average person you run into.

So I leave last night via the Clubhouse gate and am walking behind the paddock stalls and John- still in this orange getup- on bicycle!

[elhelmete]

I knew a guy who installed transmissions at a Ford Motor Co. plant in the early 1990s, his opinion should be gold about the direction of Ford in 2023.

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Based on what metrics, Paul? You are stamping yourself as a well-informed insider, but this is nothing more than "I'm hearing big things, really big things". Are you measuring purses? Investments? Attendance? Handle? Real estate values? Brand values? Once you tell me what metric you are using, we can then compare the declining NY product versus another you think is improving.

And you have no axe to grind? If you are no longer part of the NY pyramid, why bother commenting incessantly like you are the go-to-guy in NY issues?

Because NY Breds are failing?

Because managing three venues is failing?

Wait, are you seriously going to Pimlico and Timonium as the mid-Atlantic stalwarts? Wait, those are not year-round. So that takes out Keeneland also which gives you six weeks. So, your argument is predicated on Laurel, Churchill, and maybe Ellis Park cards. Have you been to Churchill when 3,000 are in attendance?

Wait, you enjoy BEL and AQU more? What do you think NYRA is?

OK - but your postings are unraveling here as they simply do not flow from point A to point B.

You lost me at dirty shirt. On the one hand you are a customer experience expert and the next thing we know, you are a business guy. Enough, Paul. You have absolutely no idea what Saratoga does or does not need. As a customer experience guy, you first need to get a current view of the customer experience and I can tell you first hand that it does not come about as a result of being a debating, keyboard warrior.

Do you work for NYRA?

[burnsy]

I don’t work for NYRA . I’m not into debating . It gives me a headache on the internet. Many people will say the opposite of you just to do it . Facts to them don’t matter . So, it’s a waste of time . I just give my opinion and move on . Plus, I often wonder if half of these people actually are gamblers or horse players . Where do they find all the time to hang out on a computer and basically bitch back and forth ? I don’t have that kind of time .

I don’t agree with everything NYRA does but Saratoga is way better than a”dirty shirt”. They had a rough year with break downs and the weather but the fans there really do love the place . If you don’t get that much , you’re lying about being there because I’m there almost every day and I see the crowds having a good time . Daily . In fact, there are familiar faces every day and every year. Something is right about that place .

The problem lies in the entire state of this game . Not the places it’s run . People can skirt , bs and cry the blues like this game constantly does but there are too many races for not enough horses. That’s the bottom line . The summer races just exaggerate this problem . The entire game has shrunk , instead of excuses , wake up and smell the coffee already. The older handicap division is a joke . Now, it’s spread to the turf races that used to offer full fields . They can’t even fill some of those . This along with the negative attention that’s been turned up to the hilt . Just keeps the spiral going . And, unfortunately, your opponents smell the blood because of a weakened state .

All these people cry as if it’s about the tracks or NYRA or the stale hot dog they bought . Enough already , this game itself is in trouble. It has absolutely nothing to do with which track it is . All the problems I previously stated are happening EVERYWHERE!
Just my two cents . The excuses are laughable , the track ?, lol, try looking at the overall product . From someone that actually has played this game for 45 years ….. and I still see some of the same people at Saratoga . When you have a great product , it sells itself and the critics and complaints are more silent .