The lower WPS takeout has had a massive affect on our handle,” A 33.72% increase

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[The_Turf_Monster]

It sounds like a losing proposition for HAW.....sounds reminiscent of CBY.

[sharkey11]

what was the takeout lowered from and to what . now all they have to do is have full fields and get rid of the caws

[P.Rosa]

They are losing money.

I believe that their old WPS takeout was 17%.
$48,051 got them $8,168.

$64,254 at the new 12% gets them only $7,710.

[iamt]

The maths is a lot more complicated than that with signal fees and what not, and who is taking what cut and where, but it is likely that yes they are down on their take from the WPS pools.

[$w1fT]

I’m sure they were aware they were going to lose money initially. Maybe let’s wait for a larger sample before we deem a player-friendly pricing move a failure?

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by $w1fT

I’m sure they were aware they were going to lose money initially. Maybe let’s wait for a larger sample before we deem a player-friendly pricing move a failure?

It's about how it's trending and it's also about how many people who now play Hawthorne are also playing exotics. I am surprised they're doing as well as they are.

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

It's about how it's trending and it's also about how many people who now play Hawthorne are also playing exotics. I am surprised they're doing as well as they are.

If the trend continues they will be profitable since the change and money will go into their low take p4 pool as well.

I’m rooting for them as all in racing should

[The_Turf_Monster]

Originally Posted by $w1fT

I’m rooting for them as all in racing should

I'll take a pass on rooting for HAW

[AskinHaskin]

Although there are clueless people dotted around this board who think "handle" and "revenue from handle" are "all the same", Hawthorne is taking another beat down akin to that of Canterbury when it became Canterburied to the tune of millions of lost revenue from a stupid experiment.

Conducting your own stupid experiment is one thing, but when your stupid experiment forces the revenue hands of independent entities far and wide then it is doubly clueless.


Does anyone even bother to look at the Sam Houston pick-3 pools these days?

Exactly for how many years have they been advertising the 12% take-out on those??? What were those pools in the beginning?? (maybe $8000?)... and what are they now??? ($1000 ?)

That isn't unlike HANA's head cheerleader standing all alone at Hialeah Quarter Horses plowing his cash through the windows at deeply discounted takeout levels there (perhaps just to say that he did it).


Just think what the Hawthorne handle could be if those fine folks over at HANA would get those Hawthorne selections posted promptly for the racegoing throngs. (or did HANA die faster than the sport which surrounded it?)

This above report is parallel to reports from the same, misguided source in the early stages of that Canterbury beat-down before, well, before the roof caved in and the truth came out...

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

Although there are clueless people dotted around this board who think "handle" and "revenue from handle" are "all the same", Hawthorne is taking another beat down akin to that of Canterbury when it became Canterburied to the tune of millions of lost revenue from a stupid experiment.

Conducting your own stupid experiment is one thing, but when your stupid experiment forces the revenue hands of independent entities far and wide then it is doubly clueless.


Does anyone even bother to look at the Sam Houston pick-3 pools these days?

Exactly for how many years have they been advertising the 12% take-out on those??? What were those pools in the beginning?? (maybe $8000?)... and what are they now??? ($1000 ?)

That isn't unlike HANA's head cheerleader standing all alone at Hialeah Quarter Horses plowing his cash through the windows at deeply discounted takeout levels there (perhaps just to say that he did it).


Just think what the Hawthorne handle could be if those fine folks over at HANA would get those Hawthorne selections posted promptly for the racegoing throngs. (or did HANA die faster than the sport which surrounded it?)

This above report is parallel to reports from the same, misguided source in the early stages of that Canterbury beat-down before, well, before the roof caved in and the truth came out...

HANA fetish hardon continues...isn't it supposed to fall off by now?

[Jeff P]

You do realize Sam Houston didn't distribute their signal this past meet, right?

Their only handle was from on track players.

Horseplayers across the US and Canada couldn't bet their races even if they wanted to.

Same situation right now with Lone Star.


-jp
.

[Poindexter]

Let's say they continue handling 33% higher or even more for this entire meet. So if they were doing 1.5 million last year a day they due 2 million a year this year a day. Let's say they stick with it and it catches on what happens next year. Maybe a 25% growth. Maybe people begin to like it and it grows 50%. But Let's go with 25%. Then your 1.5 million of last year become 2.5 million in 2 years. Further growth down the road will be on a higher base. They are out there trying to do something unlike many other players in the industry, that take the opposite approach (raise takeout, rebated players pay the same and the betting public gets fleeced even more).

There was an article about it as well.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...takeout-works/



Key takeaway:

“Yes, lower takeout could mean a lower return to everybody,” he said. “But what we are seeing is an increase in the handle for exactas, trifectas, Pick 3's, Pick 4's. That's been able to offset the lower takeout from the win, place and show pools. So commissions earned are up. All the partners betting on the Hawthorne signal are making more money. And what is happening is that we are generating more interest in our product and that is benefitting everyone, including the players. I would hope this is something we have started and will see others follow along. You can make more money doing this and increase your exposure. We're very happy with the results.”



Sounds like it is off to a good start. Why the negativity? When a horse player in 2023 is given a good option that is a good thing right? Also in the WPS pools if you stick with them, how much damage can the caw do. A lot of rebated player aren't going to get any significant rebates. Right? Do the big Caws that might get 6% back even deal with Hawthorne? Sounds like a good betting opportunity to me. What am I missing here? If you folks don't support this you aren't going to see more of it from other tracks, so jump in. Take your money away from any track that raises or has recently raised takeout and put it right here. The onus is on us to make this successful and steer the industry in the right direction. You can hate Hawthorne and love the tracks you might be taking money away from, but sending the right message is a lot wiser than worrying about your personal preferences. The same goes for any track taking steps in the right direction. Support them. (eg Indiana with it's two low takeout pick 5s).

By the way I am not talking to the folks making money at this game. You have to do what you have to do. I am talking to most people, who aren't. Give yourself a better chance of winning and send the right message. Right now they are racing 2 days a week. Join in and feel the spirit of low takeout.

[Andy Asaro]

Key takeaway:

“Yes, lower takeout could mean a lower return to everybody,” he said. “But what we are seeing is an increase in the handle for exactas, trifectas, Pick 3's, Pick 4's. That's been able to offset the lower takeout from the win, place and show pools. So commissions earned are up. All the partners betting on the Hawthorne signal are making more money. And what is happening is that we are generating more interest in our product and that is benefitting everyone, including the players. I would hope this is something we have started and will see others follow along. You can make more money doing this and increase your exposure. We're very happy with the results.”

Right on

Can you imagine the success at a major track with larger field size?

[kyle r]

What can’t be known and can’t be calculated is how much handle might be down without the takeout decrease. The general environment/trend would make that likely. I wonder, is there a per runner calculation? Field size has not been large from what I’ve seen.