Golden Gate to close?

[46zilzal]

It took closing Longacres for people to understand how many SUPPORT JOBS were lost as well. Literally HUNDREDS of people involved in transportation support, feed supplies, Tack suppliers, Vet service, support of the physical plant (construction crews, landscape crews, foot service support, management structure) etc

[Bustin Stones]

I believe that simulcasting has "killed" many of the lesser tracks. When people could only bet on horses at the host track, we needed many host tracks. Now that people can bet most American tracks from any location, tracks are fairly interchangeable. So, the weaker ones can be expected to contract. This kind of financial activity has played out in every industry.
Companies compete understanding that they need to offer something different to survive. Ones who don't usually disappear. The competition for handle among tracks featuring $5,000 claimers is fierce. And the industry can only support so many of them. The ADWs have benefitted by taking revenue. The alternative is to stop allowing simulcasting and forcing action back to local tracks. If the truth is that the sport must have all of these races at that level to survive, then we should stop simulcasting. People in NE Ohio would be forced to play races run in NE Ohio and nowhere else. This may seem unduly restrictive, but if you truly believe the sport cannot survive without this, it must be done.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

I believe that simulcasting has "killed" many of the lesser tracks. When people could only bet on horses at the host track, we needed many host tracks. Now that people can bet most American tracks from any location, tracks are fairly interchangeable. So, the weaker ones can be expected to contract. This kind of financial activity has played out in every industry.
Companies compete understanding that they need to offer something different to survive. Ones who don't usually disappear. The competition for handle among tracks featuring $5,000 claimers is fierce. And the industry can only support so many of them. The ADWs have benefitted by taking revenue. The alternative is to stop allowing simulcasting and forcing action back to local tracks. If the truth is that the sport must have all of these races at that level to survive, then we should stop simulcasting. People in NE Ohio would be forced to play races run in NE Ohio and nowhere else. This may seem unduly restrictive, but if you truly believe the sport cannot survive without this, it must be done.

Simulcasting is THE big reason for the closures. Everything else is downstream from that.

[Maximillion]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

I believe that simulcasting has "killed" many of the lesser tracks. When people could only bet on horses at the host track, we needed many host tracks. Now that people can bet most American tracks from any location, tracks are fairly interchangeable. So, the weaker ones can be expected to contract. This kind of financial activity has played out in every industry.
Companies compete understanding that they need to offer something different to survive. Ones who don't usually disappear. The competition for handle among tracks featuring $5,000 claimers is fierce. And the industry can only support so many of them. The ADWs have benefitted by taking revenue. The alternative is to stop allowing simulcasting and forcing action back to local tracks. If the truth is that the sport must have all of these races at that level to survive, then we should stop simulcasting. People in NE Ohio would be forced to play races run in NE Ohio and nowhere else. This may seem unduly restrictive, but if you truly believe the sport cannot survive without this, it must be done.

"killing" off people who actually bet in addition to the tracks is probably not a good solution.

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Simulcasting is THE big reason for the closures. Everything else is downstream from that.

Football has an ever-expanding schedule and increasing wagering opportunities. But it thus far shows no signs of contracting. Of course, football has strengthened its reputation for being tough on cheating and misbehaving and has a relatively low vig to horse racing.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by ranchwest

Football has an ever-expanding schedule and increasing wagering opportunities. But it thus far shows no signs of contracting. Of course, football has strengthened its reputation for being tough on cheating and misbehaving and has a relatively low vig to horse racing.

Imagine if way back when you could only bet on whatever local high school games were in your region.

Then they legalized betting on NFL games.

What would happen to the high school handle?

[The_Turf_Monster]

There's a lot of hands in that takeout cookie jar with ADW allowing everybody to wager from his/her couch. This business is going to keep contracting tracks and shedding jobs so long as the ADWs continue to cipher money out of purse accounts, breeding awards, etc.

Those ADWs don't care if you're betting harness racing in Sweden, turf racing with right hand turns from South Africa, or donkeys/mules from Central America so long as they have the opportunity to drain the takeout pot. The disappearance of AP, HOL, GG, CRC, SUF, etc. means nothing to them.

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Imagine if way back when you could only bet on whatever local high school games were in your region.

Then they legalized betting on NFL games.

What would happen to the high school handle?

In my region, there are high schools with much bigger stadium capacities than in the past. Allen (Texas) High School has a stadium with a capacity of 18,000 and as far as I know they draw very large crowds. I know nothing of the wagering on high school games.

[Al Gobbi]

Originally Posted by ranchwest

Football has an ever-expanding schedule and increasing wagering opportunities. But it thus far shows no signs of contracting. Of course, football has strengthened its reputation for being tough on cheating and misbehaving and has a relatively low vig to horse racing.

Football isn't contracting in terms of less teams but there definitely feels like there's going to be contraction in terms of conferences involving the major power players in college football.

It's entirely possible the Pac 12 and ACC don't exist within the next 5-10 years with the top flight members of those conferences currently going to either the SEC, Big 10 or Big 12 while the other are left fighting for scraps.

[JustRalph]

Bustin, can you show me the 35-40 tracks that have closed?

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by Al Gobbi

Football isn't contracting in terms of less teams but there definitely feels like there's going to be contraction in terms of conferences involving the major power players in college football.

It's entirely possible the Pac 12 and ACC don't exist within the next 5-10 years with the top flight members of those conferences currently going to either the SEC, Big 10 or Big 12 while the other are left fighting for scraps.

That's just re-alignment. So far, it seems to be making football stronger.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by AndyC

We agree. The model doesn't work, it is a financial disaster. I am challenging the position that a major contraction or consolidation will somehow cure all that ails the racing industry. I think it makes things a lot worse.

I'm not sure it will cure anything.

If you have a better idea, I'm all ears.

If I recall, you are an accounting and finance guy. I assume you follow markets and business.

Find me one industry that was in a secular decline (not just a short term downturn due to recession) that had mounting losses across most of the industry, little or no free cash to invest, little or no cash to advertise etc.. that was able to turn itself around in some other way.

I'm all ears to learn something new because I've been following markets since the mid 80s and I can't think of any.

Since they are shrinking and strapped for cash, declining industries tend to consolidate (strongest take out the weakest), take costs out of the system, return to profitability that way, and then use the new cash generated to invest, advertise, try to reinvent themselves etc...

I know some are going to argue we've been consolidating for awhile now and it's not working, but we really aren't. We are propping up zombie tracks with casino money, cutting costs within struggling tracks by lowering the quality of the product, not testing enough, not advertising, making the on track experience less enjoyable etc... Only when it's obvious that the economics are a disaster and the land has better uses do we close something. IMO we are moving way too slowly to gain any benefit from the consolidation.

I'm not heartless. I'm aware of the damage consolidation causes to people's lives. I used to work on Wall St in banking and brokerage where consolidation is a way of life and experienced it. It can be very painful. But you need a better solution. There really aren't any obvious ones absent piles of free cash to invest.

No one is going to listen to me. I'm just a horseplayer with a lot of investment experience venting on a message board, but the handwriting is on the wall and I'm not happy about what I see coming.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'm not sure it will cure anything.

If you have a better idea, I'm all ears.

If I recall, you are an accounting and finance guy. I assume you follow markets and business.

Find me one industry that was in a secular decline (not just a short term downturn due to recession) that had mounting losses across most of the industry, little or no free cash to invest, little or no cash to advertise etc.. that was able to turn itself around in some other way.

I'm all ears to learn something new because I've been following markets since the mid 80s and I can't think of any.

Since they are shrinking and strapped for cash, declining industries tend to consolidate (strongest take out the weakest), take costs out of the system, return to profitability that way, and then use the new cash generated to invest, advertise, try to reinvent themselves etc...

I know some are going to argue we've been consolidating for awhile now and it's not working, but we really aren't. We are propping up zombie tracks with casino money, cutting costs within struggling tracks by lowering the quality of the product, not testing enough, not advertising, making the on track experience less enjoyable etc... Only when it's obvious that the economics are a disaster and the land has better uses do we close something. IMO we are moving way too slowly to gain any benefit from the consolidation.

I'm not heartless. I'm aware of the damage consolidation causes to people's lives. I used to work on Wall St in banking and brokerage where consolidation is a way of life and experienced it. It can be very painful. But you need a better solution. There really aren't any obvious ones absent piles of free cash to invest.

No one is going to listen to me. I'm just a horseplayer with a lot of investment experience venting on a message board, but the handwriting is on the wall and I'm not happy about what I see coming.

A contraction will benefit the Industry is it's planned.

No planning now just crumbling

[cj]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Bustin, can you show me the 35-40 tracks that have closed?

There are just since I've been following the sport, though that is about 40 years. I've made speed figures for all these tracks at one time.

Aksarben
Arlington
Atlantic City
Atokad Downs
Bay Meadows
Beulah
Birmingham
Blue Ribbon
Bowie
Calder
Detroit Race Course
Downs at Santa Fe
Erie Downs
Fairplex
Garden State Park
Great Lakes Downs
Hazel Park
Hialeah
Hollywood Park
Le Bois Park
Manor Downs
Mount Pleasant Meadows
Northlands Park
Pinnacle Race Course
Portland Meadows
Playfair Race Course
Rockingham Park
Solano Fair
Sportsman's Park
Suffolk Downs
Stampede Park
Trinity Meadows
The Woodlands

Soon to come:

Golden Gate
Turf Paradise

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

A contraction will benefit the Industry is it's planned.

No planning now just crumbling

if it's planned