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06-08-2017, 08:17 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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P6 Guarantee at Belmont was 75K. Chart has wrong carryover amount????
Supposed to be higher based on guarantee of 75K. Pool ended up at $59,421
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06-08-2017, 08:23 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Page 65
https://www.gaming.ny.gov/pdf/legal/...%202017-02.pdf
(1) The pick-six pool shall be apportioned as follows: 75 percent of the resulting pick six
net pool for the day shall be distributed, less breaks, to the holders of wagers
selecting the winners of all six designated races in the pool, or to the holders of the
wagers selecting the winners of the designated races with no more than three all-win
races, and no other races are cancelled in the pick-six sequence or races, and 25
percent of such net pool shall be distributed to the holders of the wagers selecting
the most winners.
(2) Should there be no wager selecting winners of all six designated races, or to the
holders of wagers selecting the winners of the designated races with no more than
three “all win” events, then 25 percent of the net pool shall be distributed, less
breaks, to the holders of wagers selecting the winners of the most pick-six races,
and the 75 percent of the net pool reserved for holders of wagers selecting six
winners, or to the holders of wagers selecting the winners of the designated races
with no more than three all-win races, then 25 percent of the net pool shall be
distributed, less breaks, to the holders of wagers selecting the winners of the most
pick-six races, and the 75 percent of the net pool reserved for holders of wagers
selecting six winners, or to the holders of wagers selecting the winners of the
designated races with no more than three all win races shall be carried over and
added to and distributed with the 75-percent net pool share of the next pick-six pool
in which a wager correctly selects the winners of all six designated pick-six races, or
five winners and no more than one all-win race.
(3) Added payments to winners. In addition to the 75-percent-net-pool share and any
carry-overs distributable when a wager correctly selects winners of all six designated
races, or five winners and no more than one all-win race of a pick-six pool, there
shall be distributed by the track operator from its own funds, upon such occurrence,
any amounts it has advertised that it will add to the total distribution, or any amounts
necessary to yield an advertised guaranteed total distribution.
Last edited by Andy Asaro; 06-08-2017 at 08:25 PM.
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06-08-2017, 09:34 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 313
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From TVG:
$0.00 PICK 6 CA Carry Over $37514.82
That reasonably fits with what should be moved forward. The Carryover does not include the difference between the actual pool and the guarantee.
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06-08-2017, 09:35 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
From TVG:
$0.00 PICK 6 CA Carry Over $37514.82
That reasonably fits with what should be moved forward. The Carryover does not include the difference between the actual pool and the guarantee.
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Why not? Can you find me any language or fine print that says that's how they're supposed to do it? I can't find any.
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06-08-2017, 09:39 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 313
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(3) Added payments to winners. In addition to the 75-percent-net-pool share and any
carry-overs distributable when a wager correctly selects winners of all six designated
races, or five winners and no more than one all-win race of a pick-six pool, there
shall be distributed by the track operator from its own funds, upon such occurrence,
any amounts it has advertised that it will add to the total distribution, or any amounts
necessary to yield an advertised guaranteed total distribution.
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06-08-2017, 09:41 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
(3) Added payments to winners. In addition to the 75-percent-net-pool share and any
carry-overs distributable when a wager correctly selects winners of all six designated
races, or five winners and no more than one all-win race of a pick-six pool, there
shall be distributed by the track operator from its own funds, upon such occurrence,
any amounts it has advertised that it will add to the total distribution, or any amounts
necessary to yield an advertised guaranteed total distribution.
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Right. They got the payoff wrong and the carryover amount wrong.
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06-08-2017, 09:46 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 313
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The TVG figure in posted is correct.
The specific clause deals with 'Payments to winners' in the pool. There are no winners with the 6 so the guarantee then doesn't apply.
The Guaranteed pool (added payments) applies only to winners in this pool. The Consos should have got 25% of the 75k after takeout.
The carryover is 75% of the todays investment after takeout. As there were no winners to make right with the difference.
Last edited by iamt; 06-08-2017 at 09:47 PM.
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06-08-2017, 09:49 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
The TVG figure in posted is correct.
The specific clause deals with 'Payments to winners' in the pool. There are no winners with the 6 so the guarantee then doesn't apply.
The Guaranteed pool (added payments) applies only to winners in this pool. The Consos should have got 25% of the 75k after takeout.
The carryover is 75% of the todays investment after takeout. As there were no winners to make right with the difference.
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Didn't ITP get the math right in post #1? Never seen him make a mistake.
Last edited by Andy Asaro; 06-08-2017 at 09:51 PM.
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06-08-2017, 09:53 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 313
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In relation to the carryover, no.
He has worked as though the guaranteed part of the pool is to be carried over as well. (75,000*0.85*0.75 = 47812).
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06-08-2017, 09:54 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
In relation to the carryover, no.
He has worked as though the guaranteed part of the pool is to be carried over as well. (75,000*0.85*0.75 = 47812).
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Where does it say that the guaranteed part doesn't carry over with 5 of 6 winners? Show me that and I'll throw in the towel.
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06-08-2017, 10:01 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 313
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There have been enough people on the twitter thread you posted telling you the same thing as I am.
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06-08-2017, 10:03 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
There have been enough people on the twitter thread you posted telling you the same thing as I am.
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That's not an answer. Show me in writing. Gotta be somewhere in the regulations.
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06-08-2017, 10:10 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 313
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You posted the relevant regulation yourself, choose to interpret it how you will.
A guarantee is an "Added Payment to winners". it is that simple.
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06-08-2017, 10:19 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
You posted the relevant regulation yourself, choose to interpret it how you will.
A guarantee is an "Added Payment to winners". it is that simple.
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Not good enough. I put questions marks after the thread title cuz I'm not positive and you've offered nothing to convince me otherwise.
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06-08-2017, 10:33 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Maybe these guys will straighten me out.
I hope to get this pinned down before tomorrow.
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