Effects of sports betting on horse racing to be examined

[cj]

Originally Posted by onefast99

So adding SW to the menu at a racetrack or casino wont draw anymore to the venue? That is the main reason Christie fought hard for this along with the horseman's association.


But when gamblers go to casinos to bet on sports, “that’s not all they’ll do,” said Lloyd D. Levenson, a prominent casino-law attorney.

“They have to eat. They’ll drink. They’ll buy some retail. They’ll see a show. They’ll stay in a hotel room.”

The big boon from legal sports betting is “the ancillary benefit, not just the benefit that comes from sports wagering,” he said.

Of course they'll get more to the building. I'm sure they'll sell more food and drink. What it won't do is get them to bet on horse racing. Someday it will just be a sports book unless racing stops trying to sponge off of other activities rather than improving its own product.

[Valuist]

I think the racing die hards are forgetting one important point: when many of us got into horse racing, we were already sports fans. But we didn't want the hassle of betting with bookmakers. If sports betting was legal back then, how many would've turned to racing? I didn't start going to the track for pageantry and to see the horses.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by cj

Of course they'll get more to the building. I'm sure they'll sell more food and drink. What it won't do is get them to bet on horse racing. Someday it will just be a sports book unless racing stops trying to sponge off of other activities rather than improving its own product.

If cleaning up the game is what is needed then so be it. The discussion is will SW bring in more patrons to that particular venue and will they bet sports without even considering betting on the horses. I think those who are looking to pass the time while watching a 3 hour baseball game or 3 hour football game will gravitate to the horses from time to time. Those who are just coming in to make a bet on a game will probably get their ticket and leave. It is up to that particular venue to create an environment to keep the bettor at the venue and occupy his/her time. Marketing 101. Those marketing that venue cant use the antiquated marketing ideas of the 70's and 80's. Too many tracks do that and they will need to step it up if SW becomes part of their menu.

[dilanesp]

As a counterpoint to cj, at the old Hollywood Park casino (before it was sold to its current owners), the races were shown on big screen TV's and betrunners came to the tables to pick up your bets and bring back your winnings. And people did bet.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

As a counterpoint to cj, at the old Hollywood Park casino (before it was sold to its current owners), the races were shown on big screen TV's and betrunners came to the tables to pick up your bets and bring back your winnings. And people did bet.

At GP they have bet runners who are in the Ten Palms restaurant and owners boxes, for bigger events they are all over the place.

[GMB@BP]

I dont think the biggest impact will neccesarily be taken customers away from racing but how it may open up gambling on horses in markets that its not in yet due to very strict laws about betting on anything.

I know where I live the indian casinos hold the cards, its tough to bet, if it becomes legal you will see american casinos and other forms of online wagering, and I have to assume that trickles down to horse racing. Texas is another state I imagine this would help racing out with.

[1GCFAN]

At my local harness track I don't see that any crossover will occur with Sports. They will aggressively go after these new patrons by setting up a sports betting bar far removed from the simulcast (clubhouse) room. It would be one off from the casino floor and have the amenities the younger crowd would want.

The owners have already discouraged horse betting by:

• Planning to tear down the grandstand
• Eliminating a separate simulcasting room that had a kitchen
• Chopped up the clubhouse (previously only open for live racing) to provide 90 carrels for simulcasting
• Moving the entrance to the simulcasting far away from the casino
• Eliminated a parking lot where horse players parked and made it a gated preferred casino player lot
• Eliminated any fresh prepared food

This summer during live racing that crowd will be forced to interact with the simulcast crowd and will thin out further to justify the downsizing.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I dont think the biggest impact will neccesarily be taken customers away from racing but how it may open up gambling on horses in markets that its not in yet due to very strict laws about betting on anything.

I know where I live the indian casinos hold the cards, its tough to bet, if it becomes legal you will see american casinos and other forms of online wagering, and I have to assume that trickles down to horse racing. Texas is another state I imagine this would help racing out with.

this is what I think also. I live in a no horse racing state-sucks. ADWs illegal. If sports betting is allowed, horse racing will/should be added also. Have 3-4 casinos, but can't bet the Ky Derby w/o going out of state-makes no sense. I spend a lot of money on hotel rooms!

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by 1GCFAN

At my local harness track I don't see that any crossover will occur with Sports. They will aggressively go after these new patrons by setting up a sports betting bar far removed from the simulcast (clubhouse) room. It would be one off from the casino floor and have the amenities the younger crowd would want.

The owners have already discouraged horse betting by:

• Planning to tear down the grandstand
• Eliminating a separate simulcasting room that had a kitchen
• Chopped up the clubhouse (previously only open for live racing) to provide 90 carrels for simulcasting
• Moving the entrance to the simulcasting far away from the casino
• Eliminated a parking lot where horse players parked and made it a gated preferred casino player lot
• Eliminated any fresh prepared food

This summer during live racing that crowd will be forced to interact with the simulcast crowd and will thin out further to justify the downsizing.

One thing I noticed in my visit to Aqueduct is how hermetically sealed they made the casino-- which shocked me because the casino was built into the grandstand. It would have been trivially easy to allow casino patrons to access the apron and/or look out and view the races (and to put some betting windows in there), but they didn't do any of that. You have to cross over into the old Aqueduct clubhouse to bet or have any access to the track.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

One thing I noticed in my visit to Aqueduct is how hermetically sealed they made the casino-- which shocked me because the casino was built into the grandstand. It would have been trivially easy to allow casino patrons to access the apron and/or look out and view the races (and to put some betting windows in there), but they didn't do any of that. You have to cross over into the old Aqueduct clubhouse to bet or have any access to the track.

Have you ever known any casino, anywhere, to offer a reason for patrons to leave the casino?

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Have you ever known any casino, anywhere, to offer a reason for patrons to leave the casino?

I was on a river boat casino on the Ohio river and when we left that night there was a police car at the exit. He was directing traffic in the opposite direction of where I needed to go. When I asked why he said a tornado had touched down about a 1/4 mile away and had put a lot of trees and a few buildings on the road. We never were told of the tornado warning buy the casino and were gambling away the whole time.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Have you ever known any casino, anywhere, to offer a reason for patrons to leave the casino?

I have been to other racinos. Gulfstream Park and Tampa Bay Downs both make it really easy for casino players to play and watch the races, and Hollywood Park wasn't hermetically sealed. Delta Downs isn't like Aqueduct either.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I have been to other racinos. Gulfstream Park and Tampa Bay Downs both make it really easy for casino players to play and watch the races, and Hollywood Park wasn't hermetically sealed. Delta Downs isn't like Aqueduct either.

You seemed to miss the fact that Genting is permitted to do anything they want. I agree, Aqueduct is sealed off and as you mentioned GP isn't. Parx is sealed off as it is now a separate facility, Penn isn't sealed off and you can go to the casino and come back out to the grandstand and watch the races anytime you want.

[cutchemist42]

Originally Posted by Valuist

I think the racing die hards are forgetting one important point: when many of us got into horse racing, we were already sports fans. But we didn't want the hassle of betting with bookmakers. If sports betting was legal back then, how many would've turned to racing? I didn't start going to the track for pageantry and to see the horses.

I'll just toss in my anecdotal experience as a 31 year old who got into racing back in 2012. I only went cause it was the last sports venue I never went to Winnipeg and people said the prime rib buffet was legit there.

Fell in love watching from the restaurant but did feel overwhelmed at first. ASD had a decent 2 page intro to reading their Equibase form. Stumbling upon this forum helped.

[menifee]

The answer to the question depends on how the laws are written. If the states make a racing or gaming license a condition of obtaining a sportsbook license, then legalized sports gambling will be a boon to racetracks. We’ll see part II of what has happened with the racino experiment. Hopefully, this time they will get it right.

The economic reality is that racing needs subsisdies. You cannot operate a track at a 10 percent takeout. The mistake the states made in part I of the experience was subsidizing supply. RHDF funds were utilized to augment purses benefiting the tracks as they no longer needed to fund a major expense (track purses). As a result in some states you had artificially large purses for 5k claimers with 6 horse fields. This does nothing to attract the bettor. Further, the tracks did not nothing to update the racing facilities, etc.

The smartest way to subsidize racing would be to subsidize demand, not supply. Hopefully, they will get it right this time. There are tremendous agricultural benefits by subsidizing racing, but the Racino experiment has showed you cannot blindly subsidize purses and expect those benefits to be enjoyed by many.