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Old 12-06-2017, 09:05 AM   #1
Andy Asaro
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Experts Take Aim on Takeout in Tucson. Say " Eliminate Breakage for more Churn"

Surprised nobody following the story. Had to post it.


Comins said that racing seems more intent on “protecting the cake rather than growing it.”

Bill Nader, principal of Grand Slam Consultancy, LLC, talked about his experience in Hong Kong and noted that horse racing outhandles the Hong Kong lottery 17-1. He said racing needs to make a concerted effort to increase handle through reduced takeout on win-place-show and exacta bets, allowing dollars to turn over and create churn.

He also advocated eliminating breakage.
“That would create churn,” he said. “Breakage is just hidden takeout. Eliminating it will push more money into the place and show pools.”


http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...SXuSKg.twitter


I and HANA and others have been pushing the same thing for years.

https://www.paulickreport.com/horsep...-horse-racing/
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:59 AM   #2
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Its been discussed a lot here, and industry wide for a long time raising takeout has been talked about in a negative light, yet its never stopped them from doing it.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:19 AM   #3
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Its been discussed a lot here, and industry wide for a long time raising takeout has been talked about in a negative light, yet its never stopped them from doing it.
The worst part is the only thing keeping the game afloat are rebates, and what are rebates but a takeout reduction? Dropping the rake clearly works, but the goobers in charge can't / won't talk about rebates.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:45 AM   #4
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The worst part is the only thing keeping the game afloat are rebates, and what are rebates but a takeout reduction? Dropping the rake clearly works, but the goobers in charge can't / won't talk about rebates.
Essentially the rebate system virtually guarantees newer players into this game will be losers and in general never have a chance to make it a successful skill based gambling venture....net result is no growth.

The one thing racing may have going for it is the younger people who get into gambling ore more aware of the rake for the games they play thus may force some different thoughts from tracks, I doubt it but its possible.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:29 PM   #5
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The worst part is the only thing keeping the game afloat are rebates, and what are rebates but a takeout reduction? Dropping the rake clearly works, but the goobers in charge can't / won't talk about rebates.
I think at least 20 tracks currently running would be closed if not for casino/slot money.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:30 PM   #6
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Dropping the rake clearly works


LOL - really???


Like it worked at Canterbury?


Like it worked at Hialeah?


Like it worked at Meadowlands?


When/where has dropping the rake clearly worked ??



Stop drinking the Kool Aid.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
LOL - really???


Like it worked at Canterbury?


Like it worked at Hialeah?


Like it worked at Meadowlands?


When/where has dropping the rake clearly worked ??



Stop drinking the Kool Aid.
I wouldn't bet at these venues if the takeout was zero! What is your point?
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:46 PM   #8
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Needs to be a substantial cut to near 10% and at a track that already has a big player base + whale money.

The folks in charge keep dancing around the obvious.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:48 PM   #9
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He also advocated eliminating breakage.
“That would create churn,” he said. “Breakage is just hidden takeout. Eliminating it will push more money into the place and show pools.”


http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...SXuSKg.twitter

Breakage is no longer a concern for me as I bet the exchange and know to the penny what I will receive from a wager before the race is off.

The exchange show me my profit/loss on each horse depending on outcome.

Breakage is a dinosaur waiting to become extinct.

Allan
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:18 PM   #10
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LOL - really???


Like it worked at Canterbury?


Like it worked at Hialeah?


Like it worked at Meadowlands?


When/where has dropping the rake clearly worked ??



Stop drinking the Kool Aid.
Like I said, rebates are the real test. They are BIG takeout reductions. Without them, the game would be dead. Try again with a real argument instead of shooting from the hip.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:19 PM   #11
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Needs to be a substantial cut to near 10% and at a track that already has a big player base + whale money.

The folks in charge keep dancing around the obvious.
Exactly. It already is 10% or less for some players. From the rumors I've heard, it is a LOT less at Gulfstream. They know takeout cuts work.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
LOL - really???


Like it worked at Canterbury?


Like it worked at Hialeah?


Like it worked at Meadowlands?


When/where has dropping the rake clearly worked ??



Stop drinking the Kool Aid.
Oaklawn lowered the take and wagering significantly increased. Put down the crack pipe. Is Karl Marx your hero? Is overall handle up in the last 20 years w/all the takeout increases?
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:46 PM   #13
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They should have addressed the robot play destroying pools for all of us
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:15 PM   #14
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I am not as convinced as many people here about the guaranteed effectiveness of takeout reduction. I think it would require very complicated modeling to determine what the optimal takeout is, and it is probably higher on some races (the Triple Crown) and lower on others (the 1st at Aqueduct tomorrow), and I bet the tracks think that charging differential takeout would look bad.

But breakage, in 2017 with online wagering, is just stupid. The reason we needed breakage was so that mutuel clerks didn't have to deal with so much small change. There's no reason that they shouldn't pay off to the penny now, especially online.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:24 PM   #15
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They should have addressed the robot play destroying pools for all of us
Agreed. It's the worst thing that's ever happened to racing.
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