Pope Again

[Horseplayersbet.com]

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/final...red-pope.aspx?
Why does he keep thinking that increasing the distribution fees will help horse racing? It will completely sink it like a torpedo.

He just doesn't get it. But many horsemen agree with him. And it is no wonder why horse racing is in trouble when it should be flourishing.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

It says at the bottom of the article "Fred Pope is a marketing and advertising executive in Lexington. He has worked for racing and breeding clients most of his career".

That tells you all you need to know. Tote monopoly and high takeouts = lots of money for breeders. So Pope is just arguing the case from his side of the fence

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Comparing the US to France is a little odd.
France runs one eighth the amount of races, have the same handle, but only pays out about 30% of what the US pays out in purses a year.
http://www.jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=17

Not sure if the low purse to handle ratio in France is due to the government or tracks taking out the bulk of the purses, or if the handle numbers include very low takeout type bets.

I'm sure horsemen in the US don't want one eighth the races run than are run right now.

Has banning Betfair helped them? Too early to find out. But it is my understanding that the tracks are receiving only a small amount from legalized bookmakers in France now.

Bottom line, horse racing should have taken off in the US because people can bet from anywhere anytime in most states now, but because it fails to compete with other forms of gambling, horse racing is lucky to have handle stay even from one year to the next.

Increasing distribution fees will cause the rebate players to leave...and I'm talking the medium sized players, the majority of who, do not win money.

Handle will drop and betting will become even less appealing to the non rebate and smaller players. We've seen that happen in the last year and a half for that matter as fees have risen.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/final...red-pope.aspx?
Why does he keep thinking that increasing the distribution fees will help horse racing? It will completely sink it like a torpedo.

He just doesn't get it. But many horsemen agree with him. And it is no wonder why horse racing is in trouble when it should be flourishing.

Saying someone "doesn't get it" doesn't persuade me. Have you actually sat down and run the numbers to know that you are someone who does get it?

If you've got a plan that will work for racing, using real numbers, then why don't you present it? Considering you're advertising your rebates just under your comments, it looks to me that you have a financial interest that would make you disagree with anything that's not better for your pocket.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Saying someone "doesn't get it" doesn't persuade me. Have you actually sat down and run the numbers to know that you are someone who does get it?

If you've got a plan that will work for racing, using real numbers, then why don't you present it? Considering you're advertising your rebates just under your comments, it looks to me that you have a financial interest that would make you disagree with anything that's not better for your pocket.

You are free to think whatever you think, but you happen to be wrong here regarding my motivations. I sincerely love the game and I want it to grow, and I cringe at Horsemen groups who have basically done everything to kill the game because of their lack of foresight or understanding of what really matters....the customer/bettor.

What numbers does Pope have going for him? Like I have stated previously, if horse racing continues to cater to the horsemen ahead of the horseplayer, it is doomed.

All decisions made by racetracks should be based on "will this idea or rule create more bettors or betting?" And I have not seen one iota of that from any of Pope's writings.

He, like many of the horsemen he represents are just looking for a bigger piece of the pie.....and he will cause the pie to shrink, but he doesn't get that part of it.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Why does he keep thinking that increasing the distribution fees will help horse racing? It will completely sink it like a torpedo.

He just doesn't get it. But many horsemen agree with him. And it is no wonder why horse racing is in trouble when it should be flourishing.

Mike Pegram and Jerry Jamgotchian both have stated recently that distribution fees need to be raised. These are 2 guys that many think can help the industry and their first instinct is to destroy it. It's just amazing these dolts think that raising prices is the solution.

[turfnsport]

I posted on the Bloodhorse site that Mr. Pope should be put in one of those glass enclosed Popemobiles and pushed off a cliff.

But I guess my comment is on the cutting room floor.

Ah, not the first time that has happened.

[proximity]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Saying someone "doesn't get it" doesn't persuade me. Have you actually sat down and run the numbers to know that you are someone who does get it?
.

there are hundreds of people waiting in line to play poker in charles town's new room and two threads with over a thousand combined posts about ct poker on twoplustwo's brick and mortar forum. and with many of those posts already complaining about the rake for ct poker, i'd say that we won't see too many of these players wandering over into the simulcast area to bet horses.

[qhrick]

If business was in the tank at McDonalds, maybe Pegram should also consider jacking up the Big Mac

Is anyone ever gonna understand they need to consider the players and give us some breaks and consideration

[Rutgers]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Comparing the US to France is a little odd.
France runs one eighth the amount of races, have the same handle, but only pays out about 30% of what the US pays out in purses a year.
http://www.jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=17

Not sure if the low purse to handle ratio in France is due to the government or tracks taking out the bulk of the purses, or if the handle numbers include very low takeout type bets.

The difference in all likihood is the purse supplements in the US, mainly from slots/VLT.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

The difference in all likihood is the purse supplements in the US, mainly from slots/VLT.

I know slots subsidies is a big thing, but I don't see it making up for more than half the difference between France and the USA.
I did more reading, and yes, bookmakers are allowed in France, and they only pay a percentage, albeit higher than Betfair, that goes to purses and the state.
If you look at the chart, the USA and Canada have the highest purse to handle ratio.
If the argument is that horsemen should get a higher percentage for putting on the show, then how can they also state they should also get a percentage of slots and perhaps sports bets too. Sounds very hypocritical.

[comet52]

There are a lot of comments after the article, most of the usual wrangling on this subject. The last comment is from Pope himself:

"John, the problem now isn't the ADW's, it is the receiving tracks where 60% of all off-track is still wagered. They get 16-17% and only pay the host 3-4%.

While the tracks know the ADW's are going to steal their bettors, they will not give up the 17%. If they will just change the IHA and split the takeout when they are the "host", then they will move up from 3-4% to 9-10% and charge that amount or more to the ADW's, OTB's, and Casinos.

Believe me, most of the net importing tracks become net Exporters when they start getting half (9-10%) of the takeout as the host. They just need to run the numbers and get on board with changing the IHA to their benefit.

Re takeout, I don't care if the takeout is 15% or 25%. I have yet to see a group of takeout specialists put up their money and buy a track to show everyone how to do it. "
Fred Pope 08 Jul 2010 4:09 PM

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by comet52

There are a lot of comments after the article, most of the usual wrangling on this subject. The last comment is from Pope himself:

"John, the problem now isn't the ADW's, it is the receiving tracks where 60% of all off-track is still wagered. They get 16-17% and only pay the host 3-4%.

While the tracks know the ADW's are going to steal their bettors, they will not give up the 17%. If they will just change the IHA and split the takeout when they are the "host", then they will move up from 3-4% to 9-10% and charge that amount or more to the ADW's, OTB's, and Casinos.

Believe me, most of the net importing tracks become net Exporters when they start getting half (9-10%) of the takeout as the host. They just need to run the numbers and get on board with changing the IHA to their benefit.

Re takeout, I don't care if the takeout is 15% or 25%. I have yet to see a group of takeout specialists put up their money and buy a track to show everyone how to do it. "
Fred Pope 08 Jul 2010 4:09 PM

He has absolutely no idea whatsoever about how this would change the total handle. His whole idea is based on the assumption that handle will stay the same. I will give him some credit that he has to realize this idea will not increase handle.

Can anyone imagine what would happen if every track charged each track 8-10% for their signal? Smaller tracks would go out of business. Unless they can undercut what the other tracks are doing, and then they will wind up with the bulk of the action, as their prices will be more appealing to the guest track.

Tracks that give any betting incentive whatsoever to customers will not be able to anymore, and inevitably more players will play less, and many will just disappear.

ADWs will be on much thinner margins, and advertising budgets will disappear. What horse racing can ill afford right now is less advertising which results in less publications, and less people being exposed and talking about the sport.

If tracks start charging tracks 8-10% they will most likely charge ADWs even more than that. Even at that level this will crush the rebate players (and I'm talking the middle players, many of whom lose lots of money), and many will go offshore or find a new hobby. Handle will sink down the drain.

The reality of the situation is that the 2-4% (I'm guess) distribution fees tracks charge other tracks are in fact market prices.

As for his comment on takeout (buying one track and reducing the takeout at that track will not do very much, it has to be a bunch of tracks or even an industry move), it makes it very difficult to take him seriously about anything, and I have to conclude he is nothing but a simple mouth piece for those without a clue.