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Old 08-31-2021, 01:06 AM   #31
v j stauffer
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
Notice the trip comment
Wow, that is a VERY BIG deal IMO.

As a former chart caller who wrote the footnotes I would have had to clear with the editor if I made a comment like that.

Not saying it's wrong, in fact it's one of a myriad of things I thought Mike did poorly.

A trouble note like that is very out of character for DRF/EQUIBASE.

VERY bold statement.
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Old 08-31-2021, 01:39 AM   #32
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Not saying it's wrong, in fact it's one of a myriad of things I thought Mike did poorly.
Enlighten us on what you think Mike did poorly.
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Old 08-31-2021, 02:11 AM   #33
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Enlighten us on what you think Mike did poorly.
If you choose to go balls to the wall to clear another speed horse. Taking that rival out of his game. Why would you now stay 5 paths off the rail allowing that horse to re-rally back into the game? If LIG had been angled towards the fence JW would have been forced to go around him and IMO never been able to beat him.

The margin of victory was a neck. We all saw JW lay his body down to get there first. Can't imagine him being able to muster enough to make up for the extra ground he "should" have been forced to cover.

Coupled with the urging the two horses were receiving which was all out by Rosario and described as tepid by the DRF Chart Caller regarding Smith.

I don't often knock rides. But this was just awful. Put Rosario on LIG and he wins on that horse. If that's not evidence of a poor ride and bad decision making nothing is.

Here's what the DRF/EQUIBASE footnote said.......

JACKIE'S WARRIOR bobbled slightly at the start, raced two to three wide in pursuit in closest aim of the leader prompting that
rival early on before being shaken off into the turn, came under coaxing at the five-sixteenths and continued two to three wide into
upper stretch closing in on the front, took over narrow command three-sixteenths from home, dug in under a drive in stark contrast
to his main rival who was tepidly handled and gamely prevailed at the finish. LIFE IS GOOD established the front and showed
the way in hand five then four wide down the backstretch before continuing four wide through the turn, slipped away midway on
the turn and was patiently handled through the latter portion of the bend, went four wide into upper stretch, got displaced from
the front at the three-sixteenths while remaining overconfidently handled, got placed to coaxing at the eighth pole and was shown
the crop to the off side through to the finish getting bested on the wire.
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Old 08-31-2021, 02:25 AM   #34
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I would love for there to be a next time but that is not likely to happen. Jackies Warrior will stick to sprinting and Life Is Good will stretch out.

I will say this. With that race under his belt I would take Life Is Good over Jackies Warrior in any sprint no matter the post position.
that is what horse racing is all about, you get to express your opinion at the windows, this is the real reason why this game is great. Too bad the racing game doesn't know how to take advantage of that.
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:11 AM   #35
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If you choose to go balls to the wall to clear another speed horse. Taking that rival out of his game. Why would you now stay 5 paths off the rail allowing that horse to re-rally back into the game? If LIG had been angled towards the fence JW would have been forced to go around him and IMO never been able to beat him.

The margin of victory was a neck. We all saw JW lay his body down to get there first. Can't imagine him being able to muster enough to make up for the extra ground he "should" have been forced to cover.

Coupled with the urging the two horses were receiving which was all out by Rosario and described as tepid by the DRF Chart Caller regarding Smith.

I don't often knock rides. But this was just awful. Put Rosario on LIG and he wins on that horse. If that's not evidence of a poor ride and bad decision making nothing is.

Here's what the DRF/EQUIBASE footnote said.......

JACKIE'S WARRIOR bobbled slightly at the start, raced two to three wide in pursuit in closest aim of the leader prompting that
rival early on before being shaken off into the turn, came under coaxing at the five-sixteenths and continued two to three wide into
upper stretch closing in on the front, took over narrow command three-sixteenths from home, dug in under a drive in stark contrast
to his main rival who was tepidly handled and gamely prevailed at the finish. LIFE IS GOOD established the front and showed
the way in hand five then four wide down the backstretch before continuing four wide through the turn, slipped away midway on
the turn and was patiently handled through the latter portion of the bend, went four wide into upper stretch, got displaced from
the front at the three-sixteenths while remaining overconfidently handled, got placed to coaxing at the eighth pole and was shown
the crop to the off side through to the finish getting bested on the wire.
Mike did not go balls to the wall to clear he established the lead in hand as the footnote said. As for being wide he's been wide in everyone of his races so far and almost all of his works I watched. I did see one work at SA where he came off the turn 2 wide, the jockey put him on the rail and he just exploded threw the stretch running the final 3/16 in 17 flat. My guess would be Mike keeps him wide so he relaxes somewhat and does not run off. No offence but I think Mike knows a little bit more on how to ride Life Is Good than you do.

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Old 08-31-2021, 05:52 AM   #36
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Mike did not go balls to the wall to clear he established the lead in hand as the footnote said. As for being wide he's been wide in everyone of his races so far and almost all of his works I watched. I did see one work at SA where he came off the turn 2 wide, the jockey put him on the rail and he just exploded threw the stretch running the final 3/16 in 17 flat. My guess would be Mike keeps him wide so he relaxes somewhat and does not run off. No offence but I think Mike knows a little bit more on how to ride Life Is Good than you do.
No offense taken.

He may or may not know more about riding LIG than me.

Whether he does or not. IMO opinion the tactics he chose Saturday were a total disaster and the horse lost as a result.

The chart says 21.4 & 44 flat. He may have been in hand around the turn and into the stretch. But to my eye he looked to be sending, trying to clear for the first 2 or 3 hundred yards. Sitting still on a horse that fast "after" you got him rolling isn't rating. 44 flat is 44 flat regardless of what you're doing.

Truth be told when I saw what he was doing I thought it made sense. JW is all speed. Clear a speed horse, one that's always in front and you can take him out of his game. Throw some dirt in his race. I thought it was going to be a good strategy.

But then staying out wide wasted any tactical advantage he had gained. Put pressure on. Make a horse do something different. MAKE HIM GO FREAKEN AROUND. Rather than letting him re-engage like they were working in company.

Many are making a big deal about how he urged him though the stretch. Just showing him the whip. I saw only one true overhanded strike with the crop. I don't care much about that. He may very well know his mount doesn't respond favorably to heavy whipping. Maybe it's counterproductive. It's not a great visual if the horse loses. However, that aspect isn't for me to say.

Question: Do you think if the jockeys were reversed and Rosario had ridden LIG he would have won the race? I do, and I think the great majority of racing fans and bettors would agree.

One final note, just because I'm 6'4" 310 and have never ridden a race. Doesn't mean I don't know as much or more about that skill set than many who do it.
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Old 08-31-2021, 09:39 AM   #37
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No

I heard on the broadcast that I think it was Life Is Good just had all aluminum shoes put on all around did I hear wrong? they said something might be wrong to make such a change.. Anybody have any input on that ? I'm just an old fart in the wind -- don't know much - so go ahead and insult me. I bet small and I bet JW so there's that.

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Old 08-31-2021, 11:47 AM   #38
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I heard on the broadcast that I think it was Life Is Good just had all aluminum shoes put on all around did I hear wrong? they said something might be wrong to make such a change.. Anybody have any input on that ? I'm just an old fart in the wind -- don't know much - so go ahead and insult me. I bet small and I bet JW so there's that.

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They mentioned Gamine had one, which I think she has had for a while but only NYRA gives that information. I don't remember hearing anything about Life Is Good.
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Old 08-31-2021, 11:59 AM   #39
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Forget the whip. He didn't even start legitimately hand riding until the 1/8th pole.

I had a flashback to a prep race Forego once had at 7F. He was very wide all the way, Forego had the horse in front of him measured, and then he was hand ridden the last 1/8th to wear down the opposition and win. The only difference is that LIG is not Forego and this was a Grade 1 race. That's something LIP hasn't won yet that would look great on his resume in the event he doesn't win one later.

The entire thing felt like a prep race to me. It was like Pletcher said "We have bigger fish to fry later, get a good race into him, but don't kill him first race off the bench to win". I could almost live with all that even though it was a Grade 1 race. But if that's the case, don't use your horse hard enough to clear a horse like JW early and then sit until the 1/8th pole. Sit off him from the start, teach him something, and then finish. If you lose, OK.
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:12 PM   #40
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The entire thing felt like a prep race to me. It was like Pletcher said "We have bigger fish to fry later, get a good race into him, but don't kill him first race off the bench to win". I could almost live with all that even though it was a Grade 1 race. But if that's the case, don't use your horse hard enough to clear a horse like JW early and then sit until the 1/8th pole. Sit off him from the start, teach him something, and then finish. If you lose, OK.
I thought it was more of prep race as well. I have no problem with the ride given that it was prep race and he most likely was not 100% coming off the layoff. Looking at his 1st 3 races Life Is Good was in front every call so I was not expecting Mike to try anything different at least intentionally. I'm sure they would have loved to get the win but they got what they wanted which was a very good race into him.

Let's try your theory. Sit off Jackies Warrior from the start, teach him something and finish. Let's say it works to a tea and he get's beat. You have a bunch of people saying what a fool Mike was how could he just hand the lead to Jackies Warrior, he wasn't trying to win the race. If you try that strategy and it goes poorly you probably don't get anything out of the race and people still bitching about Mike's ride.
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:38 PM   #41
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Let's try your theory. Sit off Jackies Warrior from the start, teach him something and finish. Let's say it works to a tea and he get's beat. You have a bunch of people saying what a fool Mike was how could he just hand the lead to Jackies Warrior, he wasn't trying to win the race. If you try that strategy and it goes poorly you probably don't get anything out of the race and people still bitching about Mike's ride.
If you read Pletcher's post race comments it seems like he wasn't hell bent on LIG getting the lead either.
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:56 PM   #42
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I would love for there to be a next time but that is not likely to happen. Jackies Warrior will stick to sprinting and Life Is Good will stretch out.

I will say this. With that race under his belt I would take Life Is Good over Jackies Warrior in any sprint no matter the post position.
I agree
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Old 08-31-2021, 05:08 PM   #43
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He may or may not know more about riding LIG than me.
Bold take, I like it!
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Old 08-31-2021, 05:44 PM   #44
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I thought it was more of prep race as well. I have no problem with the ride given that it was prep race and he most likely was not 100% coming off the layoff. Looking at his 1st 3 races Life Is Good was in front every call so I was not expecting Mike to try anything different at least intentionally. I'm sure they would have loved to get the win but they got what they wanted which was a very good race into him.

Let's try your theory. Sit off Jackies Warrior from the start, teach him something and finish. Let's say it works to a tea and he get's beat. You have a bunch of people saying what a fool Mike was how could he just hand the lead to Jackies Warrior, he wasn't trying to win the race. If you try that strategy and it goes poorly you probably don't get anything out of the race and people still bitching about Mike's ride.
I think he should have moved over in front of JW once he was clear. Throwing dirt back in his face, making him change his usual style and most importantly COVER MORE GROUND. When he didn't do that IMO Mike's decision making was poor.
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Old 08-31-2021, 09:09 PM   #45
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I think he should have moved over in front of JW once he was clear. Throwing dirt back in his face, making him change his usual style and most importantly COVER MORE GROUND. When he didn't do that IMO Mike's decision making was poor.
Most of the time I would agree with you. Clear to the lead, take the rail and make your opposition cover more ground. Mike has never done that with Life Is Good. In his maiden race Life As Good easily made the lead and Mike could have put him on the rail but he didn't. In the Sham Life Is Good did not break as sharp as a few of the others did. Life Is Good quickly gathered the other horses up by the time they entered the 1st turn. Mike could have easily put Life As Good on the rail but he didn't. In the San Felipe Life As Good actually broke from the rail. Life Is Good easily broke to the lead and Mike only had to move 1 path to the left to find himself on the rail. Mike made a concerted effort to keep Life As Good of the rail.

Logic would dictate once you clear to the lead take the shortest way home which is the rail. I would assume since Mike has made a concerted effort to keep Life Is Good off the rail in everyone of his races he has a reason for doing so. Do you have an opinion on why Mike would be doing so?
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