The Greatest of All Time - Bob Baffert

[Richie]

Originally Posted by Psychotic Parakeet

Honestly, if the CHRB had any shred of competence, then he would've been ruled off a long time ago.

yeah, the day he shipped in and won 5 stakes races on Belmont day

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

Article from Bloodhorse says the Baffert camp expects no more than 30 days from the Derby positive. Seems unlikely to me, but they floated it out there. They also think they can drag this out for four years:

Even if that is their strategy, it is super dumb to say it. Not only will the KHRC see it, but any judge will too. And so will Churchill Downs.

One thing I don't think Baffert's people realize is how pissed off a lot of people are at him because he did it in the Derby. There's plenty of folks who have a bit of a "boys will be boys" attitude about medication in the sport who think THIS one is an abomination because he did it in the sport's prestige event.

Saying stuff like this is almost mocking the sport. Baffert's lawyers are satiating their own egos (it's fun to talk to the press and be a big shot) and hurting their client here.

(EDIT: and by the way, the maximum penalty here is permanent revocation with a 5 year wait before any application for reinstatement. Their arguments that this is limited to 30 days ignore that he has more than 3 priors and is thus subject to the catch all provision I quoted in the thread.)

[classhandicapper]

This is starting to snowball beyond what I expected.

Even if he winds up getting away with a 30-60 day suspension or something similar to that, he almost has to be making a LOT of people in the industry very unhappy. That could come back to bite him. It's one thing to try to protect your reputation with urine tests. It's another to start getting aggressive. If he actually injected the horse, he has some mega balls.

[Robert Fischer]

He's an extremely worthy scapegoat at this point.

Racing has a chance to Dutrow him, and then the majority will say "now racing is clean".

It's like Baseball. Everybody takes steroids and HGH, but most fans will say "I'm glad we cleaned up after the Steroid Era"...

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This is starting to snowball beyond what I expected.

Even if he winds up getting away with a 30-60 day suspension or something similar to that, he almost has to be making a LOT of people in the industry very unhappy. That could come back to bite him. It's one thing to try to protect your reputation with urine tests. It's another to start getting aggressive. If he actually injected the horse, he has some mega balls.

IMO A lot of his Owners could care less if he cheats or embarrasses the Industry as long as he wins for them. If they had any integrity they would have pulled their horses from him after the split came up positive.

And that's the deal with horse racing. Everyone says their for integrity until they aren't

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

He's an extremely worthy scapegoat at this point.

Racing has a chance to Dutrow him, and then the majority will say "now racing is clean".

It's like Baseball. Everybody takes steroids and HGH, but most fans will say "I'm glad we cleaned up after the Steroid Era"...

In 1998, Mark McGwire hit 70 home runs, Sosa hit 63, two other players hit over 50 homers. In 2019, only one player eclipsed 50, Alonso from the Mets hit 53. And in today's MLB, almost everyone swings for the fences. It's all or nothing with strikeouts at an all-time high. Strikeouts per game has gone up for 13 straight years. If the players were on steroids there'd be guys hitting over 60 or more and several players hitting 50 or more. No one is ever going to hit 60 home runs ever again, in my opinion, because it can't be done without steroids. Ruth was a freak of nature and had a short porch, and Maris had the short porch and Mickey Mantle batting in front of him and he just had a huge year.

To me, it seems pretty clear that steroids are not widely used in MLB now.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by pandy

In 1998, Mark McGwire hit 70 home runs, Sosa hit 63, two other players hit over 50 homers. In 2019, only one player eclipsed 50, Alonso from the Mets hit 53. And in today's MLB, almost everyone swings for the fences. It's all or nothing with strikeouts at an all-time high. Strikeouts per game has gone up for 13 straight years. If the players were on steroids there'd be guys hitting over 60 or more and several players hitting 50 or more. No one is ever going to hit 60 home runs ever again, in my opinion, because it can't be done without steroids. Ruth was a freak of nature and had a short porch, and Maris had the short porch and Mickey Mantle batting in front of him and he just had a huge year.

To me, it seems pretty clear that steroids are not widely used in MLB now.

One other piece of evidentiary support for your thesis is that owners have also moved in fences.

Out here, Artie Moreno painted a yellow line halfway up the right field wall and thus cut the fence in half, and I went to Citi Field a couple of years ago and the Mets had moved the left field power alley fence in by at least 10 feet- they had both the old fence and the new fence up.

[Gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This is starting to snowball beyond what I expected.

Even if he winds up getting away with a 30-60 day suspension or something similar to that, he almost has to be making a LOT of people in the industry very unhappy. That could come back to bite him. It's one thing to try to protect your reputation with urine tests. It's another to start getting aggressive. If he actually injected the horse, he has some mega balls.

BB doesn't inject his horses. It was the groom that injected the horse after he peed on the hay.

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by pandy

Ruth was a freak of nature and had a short porch, and Maris had the short porch and Mickey Mantle batting in front of him and he just had a huge year.

You should probably study the facts a bit more closely.


One can only imagine how many others you present that are dead wrong.

[Frost king]

And if you believe nobody was taking some kind of edge, in any sport from the beginning of time, you are truly delusional. Cheating has become part of sport, it has become more sophisticated with time. All horse racing, from the very beginning has been dirty. Just accept it and carry on. To believe, that no one is cheating is being naive. The only difference between Baffert and anybody else, is that Baffert was sloppy and got caught.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Frost king

The only difference between Baffert and anybody else, is that Baffert was sloppy and got caught.

...a bunch of times in a short time span.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

IMO A lot of his Owners could care less if he cheats or embarrasses the Industry as long as he wins for them. If they had any integrity they would have pulled their horses from him after the split came up positive.

And that's the deal with horse racing. Everyone says their for integrity until they aren't

Not that politics matter in a pristine sport like ours when it comes to stewards decisions, but at a few tracks one can almost imagine if there's a little bumping and it's a very close call either way, Baffert is coming down. If it's the other way around, he's not getting put up.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by cj

...a bunch of times in a short time span.

and in high profile races, no one would care otherwise.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

and in high profile races, no one would care otherwise.

That's why I'm not 100% convinced this one single case isn't just incompetence. Only a moron, someone that subconsciously wants to get caught, or someone so ridiculously arrogant it borders on mental illness would inject his horse with this drug going into the Derby under the legal time limit hoping to get away with it. He doesn't strike me as any of those. He seems more like a guy that goes to the edge of legality hoping to gain an edge, but not a dumb crazy person.

If they caught him using something that previously used to go undetected because they now have enhanced testing, that would be a different story. That would make sense.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

You should probably study the facts a bit more closely.


One can only imagine how many others you present that are dead wrong.

What facts did I get wrong?