The DQ (or non-DQ) complaint thread

[EMD4ME]

Here's an idea for all tracks to utilize:

Print out the guidelines for DQ's and hand them out everyday for free and place them on-line for all to see.

Show literally dozens and dozens of examples (on line and in some sort of print version) of inquiries and how the rules were applied. Call this the DQ baseline samples.

After a decision is made, go live on the in house monitors and explain in detail WITH citations along side references of the aforementioned prior examples of WHY a decision is made. In other words match today's circumstance to the closest example cited in the baseline examples.

I understand, no 2 decisions are exactly equal.

If and when a team of stewards is found to have blatantly made a mistake, they are to be immediately released of all duties and banned from being a steward for 5 years in any state.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Here's an idea for all tracks to utilize:

Print out the guidelines for DQ's and hand them out everyday for free and place them on-line for all to see.

Show literally dozens and dozens of examples (on line and in some sort of print version) of inquiries and how the rules were applied. Call this the DQ baseline samples.

After a decision is made, go live on the in house monitors and explain in detail WITH citations along side references of the aforementioned prior examples of WHY a decision is made. In other words match today's circumstance to the closest example cited in the baseline examples.

I understand, no 2 decisions are exactly equal.

If and when a team of stewards is found to have blatantly made a mistake, they are to be immediately released of all duties and banned from being a steward for 5 years in any state.

Stewards need to police the rules, not decide which bettors get to cash their tickets. One thing I've said a million times is this. Pay the winners unless you absolutely cannot.

The standard of a DQ should be so high that judges should be asking themselves 'would I rank this inquiry/incident in the top 1 pct of all horse races I've ever seen in the history of my life as far as the blatant nature of it all" and, be honest with yourself and you can turn into a much better steward overnight.

Horse racing is a contact sport, to me, in order for a DQ to happen The contact needs to be so severe that the rider almost falls off the horse. Anything like a brush is just part of the game, things that are part of the game need to be left up.

The standard that all inquiries need to be judged against is the first race at santa Anita on Jan 2, 2014.

THAT is a DQ. If you are a judge and your inquiry doesn't LOOK Like that, pay the winners and stop playing god with other people's money.

[jeebus1083]

#2 Sparks to Flame (Euclyn Prentice, Jr) mugs the #5 horse turning for home, bearing in under right handed urging, causing #5 to lose momentum, steady and nearly lose the irons. Stewards post the inquiry, then the rider of the #5 claims foul. No change. Complete bull crap.

[spang99]

tonights 7th at MTN. coming into the stretch bug rider on the 2 horse about causes a 3 horse pile up after coming 3 deep. He goes to a hard right stick, horse ducks in causing the 5 to check up sharply. He finishes third, stays up. No blood no foul.

I had no dog in the fight but these MTN stewards are something else. Check the replay if you would like.

[spang99]

Originally Posted by jeebus1083

#2 Sparks to Flame (Euclyn Prentice, Jr) mugs the #5 horse turning for home, bearing in under right handed urging, causing #5 to lose momentum, steady and nearly lose the irons. Stewards post the inquiry, then the rider of the #5 claims foul. No change. Complete bull crap.

Typing the same time you were posting. Unbelievable huh?

[jeebus1083]

Originally Posted by spang99

tonights 7th at MTN. coming into the stretch bug rider on the 2 horse about causes a 3 horse pile up after coming 3 deep. He goes to a hard right stick, horse ducks in causing the 5 to check up sharply. He finishes third, stays up. No blood no foul.

I had no dog in the fight but these MTN stewards are something else. Check the replay if you would like.

That my friend, was a rodeo. If I'm Euclyn Prentice, Jr, I'd be expecting a meeting with the stewards tomorrow, a fine and days for careless riding. Perhaps the stewards didn't want to punish the bettors for a bug boy's carelessness, but it likely cost the #5 a better placing and they should have been obligated to do something.

[appistappis]

I had the exact. here so no dog in this fight either but I thought he was coming down for sure. They don't give us the reasons for their decisions but I can only guess that they ruled he didn't cost the five a placing as he was tiring when cut off. Same thing can happen tomorrow and he'll come down.

[Stillriledup]

Wow, that mountain horse didnt come down?

How is that possible?

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by jeebus1083

#2 Sparks to Flame (Euclyn Prentice, Jr) mugs the #5 horse turning for home, bearing in under right handed urging, causing #5 to lose momentum, steady and nearly lose the irons. Stewards post the inquiry, then the rider of the #5 claims foul. No change. Complete bull crap.

I know it hurts to hear but I would not have DQ'd him either. The 5 was as fried as I am after a 14 hour work day and 2 shots of tequila to forget about the stresses of the day. To compound it, he was not cost a spot at all as the 1 was also flying by for 4th.

Yes, it was a complete foul but had no impact on the race.

Again, it hurts me to say it as in some states a foul is a foul, period.

I had a hefty ticket closing at Emerald sunday. Was on the lead, got crushed by the 2 wide presser who was going by (90% going by). Jockey objected.

Stewards said no change as yes there was a foul but it didn't change the outcome of the race.

It hurts to hear but if that's the rule, I am o.k. with it.

But you guys are right, same thing will happen a race later LOL and they will take the horse down.

Regardless, the kid deserves days.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I know it hurts to hear but I would not have DQ'd him either. The 5 was as fried as I am after a 14 hour work day and 2 shots of tequila to forget about the stresses of the day. To compound it, he was not cost a spot at all as the 1 was also flying by for 4th.

Yes, it was a complete foul but had no impact on the race.

Again, it hurts me to say it as in some states a foul is a foul, period.

I had a hefty ticket closing at Emerald sunday. Was on the lead, got crushed by the 2 wide presser who was going by (90% going by). Jockey objected.

Stewards said no change as yes there was a foul but it didn't change the outcome of the race.

It hurts to hear but if that's the rule, I am o.k. with it.

But you guys are right, same thing will happen a race later LOL and they will take the horse down.

Regardless, the kid deserves days.

Thanks for this write up. I didn't see the race I just flipped on the signal during the slow mo and didnt have context that the bothered horse was stopping.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

3. There is no lack of dedication and certainly no coin flips. Incompetent and or unenthused stewards are EXTREMLY rare. Almost non-existent. Also, they don't last.

4. Consistency. The real "C" word. Players think stewards are consistent in their decisions until one comes down that they vehemently disagree with. Then in the players mind consistency is out the door. That's the job stewards signed on for. Never easy.

3. The decisions can quite easily turn into coin flips. If two stewards weigh in on either side of a decision, and the third is on the fence. That, in my book, is a coin flip, unless he's free to abstain.

4. Nothing will change because horse racing isn't getting the publicity it deserves. You will, of course, remember the national outrage after the BC Classic, 'won' by Bayern. If that type of public outcry were a regular occurrence, is there any doubt that horse racing would place immediate attention on improving the stewarding setup? None whatsoever. It wasn't, as you -to some extent correctly- suggest, about losing tickets. It was about fairness, and the public perception of what is fair.

Horse racing continues to live decades behind the times. Too bad. Example. You are certain that a photo, of horses crossing the wire, is 100% reliable. Computer hacking is a widespread phenomenon, my friend. Major financial institutions have learned that the hard way. Do you really think a top hacker couldn't hack his way into SA? It may seem farfetched, until it happens, but based on the overall state of the industry I'm going to guess that the level of cyber security at racetracks is far from top level.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Thanks for this write up. I didn't see the race I just flipped on the signal during the slow mo and didnt have context that the bothered horse was stopping.

My pleasure SRU. I didn't make a bet. Just watched and took notes. He was caught in between in a 3 horse duel, was coming to a crawl near the 5/16 and it was evident a top 4 placing was not happening unless an earthquake occurred, the earth opened up at the 1/8 pole, swallowed the first 3 or 4 horses and he avoided the whole in the ground.

Not saying he ran a bad race, just saying he lost the pace battle relatively early and the suck ups were coming for minor spots. He had no shot to run 4th at the 5/16's pole.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

3. The decisions can quite easily turn into coin flips. If two stewards weigh in on either side of a decision, and the third is on the fence. That, in my book, is a coin flip, unless he's free to abstain.

4. Nothing will change because horse racing isn't getting the publicity it deserves. You will, of course, remember the national outrage after the BC Classic, 'won' by Bayern. If that type of public outcry were a regular occurrence, is there any doubt that horse racing would place immediate attention on improving the stewarding setup? None whatsoever. It wasn't, as you -to some extent correctly- suggest, about losing tickets. It was about fairness, and the public perception of what is fair.

Horse racing continues to live decades behind the times. Too bad. Example. You are certain that a photo, of horses crossing the wire, is 100% reliable. Computer hacking is a widespread phenomenon, my friend. Major financial institutions have learned that the hard way. Do you really think a top hacker couldn't hack his way into SA? It may seem farfetched, until it happens, but based on the overall state of the industry I'm going to guess that the level of cyber security at racetracks is far from top level.

That's like saying a bang-bang play on a steal of second base is a coin flip. Stewards are paid to make decisions. Some calls are close and tough but require a decision.

Of course computer hacking can be prevalent. But hacking the photo finish at SA. That's way too far out there. You can't hack into somebody's eyeballs. The system of posting the numbers has many more checks and balances that just a photo finish image. And as I said before. Photo finish IS in fact infallible.

One other thing. I won't reply to SRU directly on this one because it's too stupid even for him.

While protection of the wagering public is unquestionably job one for a steward. The rules are written the way they are for a reason. Riles' suggestion that all results should be left alone except in the most egregious cases is of course idiocy. Lives are on the line in this sport. Jockey's will ride up to and sometimes beyond the boundaries stewards (regulators ) set. SRU's suggestion would be a catastrophic free for all which would very quickly make for dead horses and jockey's laying on America's tracks everyday.

While I do love him.

SRU is a myopic moron incapable of seeing the greater good big picture.

But I do love him

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

That's like saying a bang-bang play on a steal of second base is a coin flip. Stewards are paid to make decisions. Some calls are close and tough but require a decision.

Of course computer hacking can be prevalent. But hacking the photo finish at SA. That's way too far out there. You can't hack into somebody's eyeballs. The system of posting the numbers has many more checks and balances that just a photo finish image. And as I said before. Photo finish IS in fact infallible.

One other thing. I won't reply to SRU directly on this one because it's too stupid even for him.

While protection of the wagering public is unquestionably job one for a steward. The rules are written the way they are for a reason. Riles' suggestion that all results should be left alone except in the most egregious cases is of course idiocy. Lives are on the line in this sport. Jockey's will ride up to and sometimes beyond the boundaries stewards (regulators ) set. SRU's suggestion would be a catastrophic free for all which would very quickly make for dead horses and jockey's laying on America's tracks everyday.

While I do love him.

SRU is a myopic moron incapable of seeing the greater good big picture.

But I do love him

I love you too. Good luck at the poker tournament and no matter what you say here, it reflects badly on you, not me.

[dragon49]

Originally Posted by spang99

tonights 7th at MTN. coming into the stretch bug rider on the 2 horse about causes a 3 horse pile up after coming 3 deep. He goes to a hard right stick, horse ducks in causing the 5 to check up sharply. He finishes third, stays up. No blood no foul.

I had no dog in the fight but these MTN stewards are something else. Check the replay if you would like.

I started another thread about this race and was redirected here:

I also had no wagering interest in the race, but watching the reply of the horse moving laterally, and literally pushing the outside horse outside of the way before cutting him off and finishing ahead of him, I thought that the steward would serve a purpose in life and uphold the inquiry. I was shocked when he didn't.