Horse of the Year

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Or, maybe they determined that his 6 inches ahead of CC in the Classic wasnt enough to cancel out the large edge in accomplishments that CC had going into the race.

Maybe it is easy for the voters to forgive the 6 inches in the Classic (even if CC had every chance to go by and never did).

Problem I have is, Pennsylvania didn't come down to 6 inches?

Bayern ran a gutsy race in the Classic, so the start wasn't the greatest, big deal, it didn't affect CC and Bayern still beat him.

THREE of the 2014 3YO beat older horses (4 if you want to count Untapable). Chrome wasn't one of them, and he won HOTY by that wide a margin??? My brain has problems processing that.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I dont think it factored in the voting only because CC ran just as well as Bayern in the Classic (or better depending how important you think ground loss is) so if you say the Classic was a wash (equal horses) and the other two races they ran against each other cancel each other out, what do you have left? You have CC winning 2./3 of the TC and racing great in leg 3 and you have Bayern losing the Travers by 20 lengths. Not much debate who was mythically "ahead" in the voters minds before the Classic.

Chrome may have still won, but it would have been a close vote. As it was, Bayern was third in the voting despite winning the Classic. The interference made a big difference in the actual voting.

[pandy]

That's because you think that Bayern ran a gutsy race. Many voters didn't feel that way. I wasn't impressed at all by Bayern's win in the Classic, especially since he wiped out his main pace rival, and an unbeaten horse, Shared Belief. Both of those horses would have challenged him and Bayern would not have won the classic.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by pandy

That's because you think that Bayern ran a gutsy race. Many voters didn't feel that way. I wasn't impressed at all by Bayern's win in the Classic, especially since he wiped out his main pace rival, and an unbeaten horse, Shared Belief. Both of those horses would have challenged him and Bayern would not have won the classic.

Could of
Should of
Would of

I had big money on Shared Belief and still think he is the best of the group. But I'm being honest here. Bayern took all that bouncing around in he beginning (even if it was self inflicted) and beat CC who pretty much had a perfect trip.

Anytime you win a $5,000,000 race at 10 furlongs gate to wire, it's a gutsy race. I don't care how brainwashed the rest of you might be into thinking that this is somehow an easy task. You can talk about an easy lead and wiping out the competitioin and blah blah blah. But in the end the horse has to dig in when the field comes for him, and on that day Bayern did. Chrome had him dead to rights at the top of the stretch and he never got by. You can be unimpressed if you want, it doesn't change the name on the trophy nor the amount on the check.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Could of
Should of
Would of

I had big money on Shared Belief and still think he is the best of the group. But I'm being honest here. Bayern took all that bouncing around in he beginning (even if it was self inflicted) and beat CC who pretty much had a perfect trip.

Anytime you win a $5,000,000 race at 10 furlongs gate to wire, it's a gutsy race. I don't care how brainwashed the rest of you might be into thinking that this is somehow an easy task. You can talk about an easy lead and wiping out the competitioin and blah blah blah. But in the end the horse has to dig in when the field comes for him, and on that day Bayern did. Chrome had him dead to rights at the top of the stretch and he never got by. You can be unimpressed if you want, it doesn't change the name on the trophy nor the amount on the check.

IMHO the best post in this thread by far.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Could of
Should of
Would of

I had big money on Shared Belief and still think he is the best of the group. But I'm being honest here. Bayern took all that bouncing around in he beginning (even if it was self inflicted) and beat CC who pretty much had a perfect trip.

Anytime you win a $5,000,000 race at 10 furlongs gate to wire, it's a gutsy race. I don't care how brainwashed the rest of you might be into thinking that this is somehow an easy task. You can talk about an easy lead and wiping out the competitioin and blah blah blah. But in the end the horse has to dig in when the field comes for him, and on that day Bayern did. Chrome had him dead to rights at the top of the stretch and he never got by. You can be unimpressed if you want, it doesn't change the name on the trophy nor the amount on the check.

You're kind of missing the point that if Bayern didn't wipe out Moreno and hurt Shared Belief's chances, he would have been pressed by them, and Chrome would have went right by him in the stretch, or, Shared Belief may have won. Bayern got lucky and created his own luck by interfering with two of his main rivals and the voters knew it. It is not that tough to win when you impede your main rivals.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by pandy

You're kind of missing the point that if Bayern didn't wipe out Moreno and hurt Shared Belief's chances, he would have been pressed by them, and Chrome would have went right by him in the stretch, or, Shared Belief may have won. Bayern got lucky and created his own luck by interfering with two of his main rivals and the voters knew it. It is not that tough to win when you impede your main rivals.

In all due respect, you missed the point, which was CC had a clear shot at Bayern at the top of the stretch and could not pass him.

Furthermore if CC needed Moreno to "soften" up Bayern, CC might be even worse when compared to Bayern.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Cratos

In all due respect, you missed the point, which was CC had a clear shot at Bayern at the top of the stretch and could not pass him.

Furthermore if CC needed Moreno to "soften" up Bayern, CC might be even worse when compared to Bayern.

I think Pandy means that everything went Bayern's way and he still only won by a very small margin. If anything goes against him, which often happens in horse races, he loses and if it REALLY goes against him, he's up the track because he's a one dimensional horse who can't adjust to adversity.

[The WindfallAngler]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Could of
Should of
Would of

I had big money on Shared Belief and still think he is the best of the group. But I'm being honest here. Bayern took all that bouncing around in he beginning (even if it was self inflicted) and beat CC who pretty much had a perfect trip.

Anytime you win a $5,000,000 race at 10 furlongs gate to wire, it's a gutsy race. I don't care how brainwashed the rest of you might be into thinking that this is somehow an easy task. You can talk about an easy lead and wiping out the competitioin and blah blah blah. But in the end the horse has to dig in when the field comes for him, and on that day Bayern did. Chrome had him dead to rights at the top of the stretch and he never got by. You can be unimpressed if you want, it doesn't change the name on the trophy nor the amount on the check.

Bayern keeps the check; Chrome enjoys the trophy.

[The WindfallAngler]

Originally Posted by pandy

You're kind of missing the point that if Bayern didn't wipe out Moreno and hurt Shared Belief's chances, he would have been pressed by them, and Chrome would have went right by him in the stretch, or, Shared Belief may have won. Bayern got lucky and created his own luck by interfering with two of his main rivals and the voters knew it. It is not that tough to win when you impede your main rivals.

Let it go. Some just will not see it. They're dazzled by Bayern's world beating brilliance rot rot rot ad nauseum

[horses4courses]

The most ridiculous comparison that I've heard is that Bayern
won 2 out of 3 encounters over CC, therefore he's better.
Way too simplistic.

CC had little, or no, chance of being near his best at Parx.
Bayern had been drilled by CC in the Preakness.
Some argue those two races should cancel each other out.
Again - way too simplistic.

So then, does it all ride on the BC Classic?
Is that what it comes down to,
regardless of trips and distance beaten?

Seems that a little race called the KY Derby
has been (conveniently) forgotten.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I think Pandy means that everything went Bayern's way and he still only won by a very small margin. If anything goes against him, which often happens in horse races, he loses and if it REALLY goes against him, he's up the track because he's a one dimensional horse who can't adjust to adversity.

I didn't come to this party late and I said long before the HOTY vote was announced that I would vote for Bayern as HOTY and CC as 3yo of the year.

Having said that and not saying that Bayern is anywhere the equal of the incomparable Dr. Fager (my all time favorite racehorse) I will say that Bayern gives today's racing a glimpse of what it was to be a racing fan in the late sixties.

What I now hope is that CC and Bayern stay healthy and race against each other as Dr. Fager and Damascus did.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Could of
Should of
Would of

I had big money on Shared Belief and still think he is the best of the group. But I'm being honest here. Bayern took all that bouncing around in he beginning (even if it was self inflicted) and beat CC who pretty much had a perfect trip.

Anytime you win a $5,000,000 race at 10 furlongs gate to wire, it's a gutsy race. I don't care how brainwashed the rest of you might be into thinking that this is somehow an easy task. You can talk about an easy lead and wiping out the competitioin and blah blah blah. But in the end the horse has to dig in when the field comes for him, and on that day Bayern did. Chrome had him dead to rights at the top of the stretch and he never got by. You can be unimpressed if you want, it doesn't change the name on the trophy nor the amount on the check.

http://www.hrtv.com/videos//2014-bre...-classic-bump/
The above is a link to the overhead view of the start of the Breeders Cup Classic. If you have not looked at it before, do so now. It shows that there was no-or very little-contact between Shared Belief and Bayern. Shared Belief may have had to take back some as Bayern crossed right in front of him, but I do not think that cost Shared Belief the race. I certainly do not think the incident affected Bayern in any way.

It is just silly to say California Chrome had a perfect trip. He did not have a terrible trip and he was never boxed in, but he was three wide around both turns. Bayern did have a perfect trip. He was on the lead all the way, where he loves to be and he was never challenged until the home stretch.

You said, "Chrome had him dead to rights at the top of the stretch and he never got by." That is phraseology one would use if the two horses were head and head at the top of the stretch and Bayern held on to the wire. In fact California Chrome was two and a half lengths back at the quarter pole and two lengths back at the stretch call. At the finish he was a neck plus a few inches behind. He gained two and a quarter lengths down the stretch.
Looking at the replay, I can see that Chrome was still more than a length back inside the sixteenth poll. Sometimes you can say that the leader would still be in front if they went around again. That was not the case in the BCC,

Don't get me wrong. Bayern won the Breeders Cup Classic. California Chrome did not. But the manner of his victory was not sufficient to overcome what Chrome did the rest of the year.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Don't get me wrong. Bayern won the Breeders Cup Classic. California Chrome did not. But the manner of his victory was not sufficient to overcome what Chrome did the rest of the year.

Correct.

The year of racing's accomplishments is measured by just that.
A year.

Way too many Eclipse awards have come down to BC performances.

[thaskalos]

I would have hated to see Bayern win it.