Keeneland late surface change discussion.

[Stillriledup]

We all know that Keeneland switched the "wise dan race" from the turf to the poly after the pick 4s and pick 5s started and they declared the race an "all". And, you know, they kept all of the "takeout".

There was a thread from 3 years ago here about a situation at Gulfstream where they made a late surface switch and they just left the bets "As is" and there was a lot of outrage, almost unanimously, people agreed that Gulfstream should have called the race an ALL.

Is there a 100% consensus here that Keeneland did the right thing, or, could they have handled it differently?

[garyscpa]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

We all know that Keeneland switched the "wise dan race" from the turf to the poly after the pick 4s and pick 5s started and they declared the race an "all". And, you know, they kept all of the "takeout".

There was a thread from 3 years ago here about a situation at Gulfstream where they made a late surface switch and they just left the bets "As is" and there was a lot of outrage, almost unanimously, people agreed that Gulfstream should have called the race an ALL.

Is there a 100% consensus here that Keeneland did the right thing, or, could they have handled it differently?

Did they follow the Kentucky rule on pick 4's and 5's?

[Al Gobbi]

Without question, if Keeneland was still dirt that race STAYS on the grass. Ever since these poly tracks have been installed at venues seems they are quick to pull the gun on taking races off the turf.

[rrpic6]

Originally Posted by Al Gobbi

Without question, if Keeneland was still dirt that race STAYS on the grass. Ever since these poly tracks have been installed at venues seems they are quick to pull the gun on taking races off the turf.

Lopresti made it known Wise Dan would be scratched if race stayed on the turf. This makes more sense. Imagine the disappointment of the crowd and the decrease in handle.

RR

[Pensacola Pete]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

And, you know, they kept all of the "takeout".

What does that mean?

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by rrpic6

Lopresti made it known Wise Dan would be scratched if race stayed on the turf. This makes more sense. Imagine the disappointment of the crowd and the decrease in handle.

RR

I think you may be right. The race came on the OTB channel...i was switching around watching games and said "WTF"??? You really don't get other track changes (than NYRA) and i was surfing, so if there was, i missed it. But the weather looked worse when they ran The First Lady(that race looked like a cluster fck.) Of course i bet early and left simulcast to be at home. i was stuck with what i had. Was anyone there? Was it that bad? Or were people threatening to scratch? That seemed like a quick call because it didn't seem that bad. I know you can't tell from the Tv, but 3/4 million, grade 1 and it got a surface change......was it necessary?

[wiffleball whizz]

Originally Posted by Pensacola Pete

What does that mean?

It means they kept what was there's.....Manu got ****ed as I'm sure others did

[Valuist]

Speaking of Keeneland and surfaces, can you believe they called that main track "fast" for the last 3 races? What a joke. Huge, visible puddles on the surface and not even listed as wet-fast? I understand its synthetic. Guess what; it didn't drain. The water was on top.

Even more ridiculous than CD calling the Derby day lawn "good" when monsoon-like bog would've been more accurate. Bettors need to keep their own records on track conditions because its clear some tracks aren't capable of it.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Pensacola Pete

What does that mean?

It means they advertised a pick 4, people bet it thinking it was a pick 4 and it turned out to only be a pick 3, a bet that many of those people would not have played if they announced the 3rd leg of the pick 4 would be an all.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Speaking of Keeneland and surfaces, can you believe they called that main track "fast" for the last 3 races? What a joke. Huge, visible puddles on the surface and not even listed as wet-fast? I understand its synthetic. Guess what; it didn't drain. The water was on top.

Even more ridiculous than CD calling the Derby day lawn "good" when monsoon-like bog would've been more accurate. Bettors need to keep their own records on track conditions because its clear some tracks aren't capable of it.

Exactly - tracks with polycrap are insulting their customer by calling everything fast. Poly ain't dirt - we need new call outs, and from an industry run by idiot wearing blinders, I expect nothing to come of it, but Wet, Dry, Cold, Warm Hot, Sticky......I know expecting someone in racing to have any imagination is reaching, but come one, don't theses people have 3rd graders at home....this ain't rocket science. It is just another case of acing not having a clue who the customers are. Would you go to diner and order a "meat" sandwich?" (other than McDonalds! )

[Milkshaker]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Speaking of Keeneland and surfaces, can you believe they called that main track "fast" for the last 3 races?

That is a function of Keeneland being God-almighty Keeneland.

You could have dumped all the sewage in Lexington armpit-high onto that track, and because Keeneland invested in a synthetic surface that it claims is NEVER anything other than fast, no one there is going to change the little sign on the tote board to reflect reality.

It's like the emperor wearing no clothes.

[BIG49010]

Yesterday it had puddles of water on the surface, I've never seen anything like it before at any of the plastic locations. It appears to have slowed down a little bit, but figure wise I don't think it was like going from Fast to a slow bog.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Milkshaker

It's like the emperor wearing no clothes.

I've always had the opinion that at KEE, it not about the bettors at all.

[rrpic6]

Originally Posted by Tom

I've always had the opinion that at KEE, it not about the bettors at all.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I was at Keeneland twice this year. Once in April while they were running, and in July for the DRF Handicapping Tourney. I was treated like I owned the place. Every employee was so polite and friendly. I was dumb enough to leave a voucher in a SAM machine in July. Jim Goodman, who was running the tournament tried to track it down along with the help of tellers and tech guys. He eventually came to the conclusion that a local guy had it and would not try to cash it that day. I was SOL. Later on Jim came over to my table and handed me a voucher for what I lost, compliments of Keeneland! That place is total class!

RR

[BillW]

The industry has decided that there will be one track condition for synthetic tracks. That is Fast. The individual tracks do not determine that on a race to race basis. Saying that this is Keeneland's fault is certainly not based on fact.