Has the time come?

[rwwupl]

My view....


Anyone who can not see that revolution is in process right now in California, without firing a shot is blind to the facts.

Trend lines are consistently DOWN every where, fans and horsemen are locating other places. Is that not what a boycott is intended to do?

We want change, and obviously change is coming. We do not want to destroy horse racing in California, unless you have a personal vendetta.

There is no need to put a formal label on what is happening already, considering if it fails ,the leader or organization will no longer be effective at anything else in our game.

We know that no matter the numbers, the racing managers in California will twist them to make it appear a failure, just to show who is boss. Did we not learn from the Los Alamitos experience?

We know that horse players will do what is in their best interest, despite proclamations that they will sacrifice for this or that cause and restrain for what is best for all. Horseplayers are contrary by nature and will take advantage of opportunitys anywhere they they can score, today,tomorrow and in the future. The free market is doing the work for us. It is like jumping in front of the parade at the end and declaring victory...maybe.

If this effort is serious, and you think you will make a difference, why not sign up and have a list of horseplayers and how much they will with hold from California betting and for how long? Then it can be monitored. Anyone is free to do as they wish without a formal label or an organized effort,so join the many who find other places to gamble than California. You do not need a sign or a hat to demonstrate, just do your thing.

I think many who want a formal boycott are not California players, but enjoy wanting to vent and action.

I think everyone should and will do what they want anyway, and it will not be surprising if the exotic pools with a takeout increase show a steady decline in play over time.. Have we no confidence in that?

Roger Way (rwwupl)

[kid4rilla]

It has to be determined what types of player the boycott would target.

How important the guy who only plays twice per week at $500 or less per visit to handle? $100 or less?

These are the pure action/entertainment players. They bet and take what they can get. I've had no problem boycotting Ca racing, but I think there are plenty that will not get on board.

My feeling is that this kind of player is not that important to having an impact.

[Bruddah]

If enough "everyday players" withdraw from the pools in California, the pools will obviously shrink. Shrink those pools small enough and the "Whales" won't swim. They head to deeper waters.

Shouldn't this be the objective, to effect the Cali pools enough to send the Whales to other waters? (JMHO)

[chickenhead]

well, this should be easy enough. Anyone out there that plans on boycotting want to state how much they played in Cali last year, and how much they are going to play this year?

I played around $5K in Pick 6's last year, the only pools I really play there. This year will be $0.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by kid4rilla

It has to be determined what types of player the boycott would target.

How important the guy who only plays twice per week at $500 or less per visit to handle? $100 or less?

These are the pure action/entertainment players. They bet and take what they can get. I've had no problem boycotting Ca racing, but I think there are plenty that will not get on board.

My feeling is that this kind of player is not that important to having an impact.

Under the current leadership, if the "Boycott" showed true success, would they get the picture or would they raise the takeout another 2-3 % to make up for those who are missing? Then declare they are entertainment any way, and they are underpriced.

The point I make leads to leadership on the CHRB We need new blood, and we will get it after the election soon.

Bill Christine wrote about this, I think he made the point.

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/west...the-lifeboats/

Excerpt:

"People often say we're competing with the casinos," Israel said. "I think that's shortsighted and wrong. We're not competing with casinos. We're in the entertainment business. We're competing with the Dodgers and the Giants and the Angels and the Lakers, and we're putting on a show."

[TommyCh]

Small factor: The time zone difference assures at least some California wagering from West Coast players. And doesn't Cali. restrict some signals from the East in the early part of the day out there? It's easy for those of us in the Midwest or East to end our wagering just as California is getting cranked up.

Besides all that, the California racing product holds little appeal for me what with the synthetics and short fields, etc. Golden Gate is murder. Same here at Arlington with the Poly Track.

[riskman]

Originally Posted by bigmack

By the way, this whole political angle to the picture is one that is an exercise in futility. This issue is a blip of a blip on the screen of politicians in this state.

bigmac has a valid point here. Track and horse owners, trainers, breeding and training farms, trainers, jockeys, stable and track personell ,vets and equipment suppliers, investors an ADW's all have a stake here. We are sitting here looking at horseplayers and where our interests lie ie.,cost of wager in this particular situation. Politicians and the general public really could care less about are interests. HANA is suppose to represent our concerns. Without wagering the industry does not exist, yet many look down upon us as a necessary evil when in fact the game disappears without are participation. The political angle does not appear to be viable because the pols in themselves do not look at horseracing as an issue worth their time unless perhaps the pol has a vested interest personally.

[Stillriledup]

I like Riskman's idea of taking out a full page ad/ads in the drf. Opening day's Dec 26th DRF right smack dab in the middle of the SA PP's can be a full page admonishing of anyone who's thinking of playing.

[kid4rilla]

Originally Posted by Bruddah

If enough "everyday players" withdraw from the pools in California, the pools will obviously shrink. Shrink those pools small enough and the "Whales" won't swim. They head to deeper waters.

Shouldn't this be the objective, to effect the Cali pools enough to send the Whales to other waters? (JMHO)

I think so, but I'm admittedly ignorant and looking for some education on the matter.

It's all about the whales. So when the waters get shallow enough and the whales swim away, the advantage seeking player probably gets back in this pool since they no longer have to deal with the big money group.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

Under the current leadership, if the "Boycott" showed true success, would they get the picture or would they raise the takeout another 2-3 % to make up for those who are missing?

If we organize tightly to boycott 2 or 3 of the most important wagers (exacta,dailydouble,Trifecta)
we would instill fear and respect in the current and future leadership.

They may publicly spin it a number of ways or try to "punish" horseplayers for demanding fair treatment, but in simple terms - they would lose, we would win, and we would win concessions(lowered takeout). They would be shocked that we "turned out to vote" on lowering takeout. They are simply businessmen, not bad people, and so far we have FORCED them to RAISE takeout because we SEEM to be incapable of organizing for action and showing leadership.

However, I've never seen any indication that anyone is ready to lead horseplayers on a highly organized, very simple, clean-cutting boycott. To be honest, I know we could do it, although it would take some talent and some important changes to approach. I'd guess it's unlikely that we would do a highly organized clean-cutting boycott.

[riskman]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

We know that horse players will do what is in their best interest, despite proclamations that they will sacrifice for this or that cause and restrain for what is best for all. Horseplayers are contrary by nature and will take advantage of opportunitys anywhere they they can score, today,tomorrow and in the future. The free market is doing the work for us. It is like jumping in front of the parade at the end and declaring victory...maybe.
Anyone is free to do as they wish without a formal label or an organized effort,so join the many who find other places to gamble than California. You do not need a sign or a hat to demonstrate, just do your thing.

I think many who want a formal boycott are not California players, but enjoy wanting to vent and action.

I think everyone should and will do what they want anyway, and it will not be surprising if the exotic pools with a takeout increase show a steady decline in play over time.. Have we no confidence in that?

Roger Way (rwwupl)

Yep, this post makes a lot of sense. Do what you have to do and go shopping for the best deal. That"s what i have been doing the past several years .Looking out for #1 me !

[Robert Fischer]

we need to be wary of all the similes metaphors and analogies...

this stuff is just business.
if we want the whales to help us, we make deals and pitch to them just like a potential client or contributer...,]
we don't actually need to "tow them to shallows", "get a bigger boat" or sing sea shanties

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by riskman

Yep, this post makes a lot of sense. Do what you have to do and go shopping for the best deal. That"s what i have been doing the past several years .Looking out for #1 me !

Agreed
and Education is huge here.
So many players have no idea that different takeouts exist or what the difference is, they have no idea that takeout is even being raised in California, and they've never been sat down for the 2 minutes it takes to run through a demonstration of how takeout affects them.

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I for one am not going give up a 15.4% takeout for some place that charges 17+% and that already charges more in exotic pools than CA will after the raise.

Then you are missing the entire point, not to mention missing the big picture.

[Sericm]

All these posts about the take out in California are really getting redundant, just like the Zenyatta, Rachel posts were.

Do you really think that anybody would join your boycott even if you could organize one?

How many people do you think you could get to boycott the races anyway? The thirty or forty that respond to these posts? And you know what, the first time there's a $500,00 or $1,000,000 carry over in the pick 6 all your well meaning resolve goes down the tube.

The temptation is there and you will be chunking in money hand over fist.

Whether you agree with my post or not the bottom line is 95% OF THE BETTORS DON'T CARE AND THE 5% THAT DO CARE DON'T MATTER!