Bill Finley: "Horseplayers Are Stupid"

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by andymays

True! I believe you get a program with the parking fee.

Wow, that's evil.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Wow, that's evil.

If a poor guy goes to early bird with a hundred bucks he's looking at about 12% takeout from gas and parking on top of the normal takeout.

We can knock them all we want but the bottom line is that they still make money. More and more from the parties and less from the racing.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by andymays

We can knock them all we want but the bottom line is that they still make money. More and more from the parties and less from the racing.

Pretty soon they won't need the horses, most won't notice they're gone anyway.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by andymays

You forgot $8 parking for early bird wagering and the reverse osmosis watering system for the polytrack.

I remember hearing at one stage(in the beginning of Polytrack) that they did not water the track because of the shortage of water, and then someone else told them not to water the Polytrack,and then that was denied. Then it was because they hired someone to gather statistics and they did not want water to distort the gathering of numbers...?

The new track man, Richard Tedesco will tell you what he thinks, and if he made the call, they would go back to dirt.

Reverse osmosis watering system? Water changes the prospects of which horse has the best chance to win. Who turns it on and off? I know players on track that watch when the water truck runs between races as part of their handicapping tool box. A good reason to be on track.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

I remember hearing at one stage(in the beginning of Polytrack) that they did not water the track because of the shortage of water, and then someone else told them not to water the Polytrack,and then that was denied. Then it was because they hired someone to gather statistics and they did not want water to distort the gathering of numbers...?

The new track man, Richard Tedesco will tell you what he thinks, and if he made the call, they would go back to dirt.

Reverse osmosis watering system? Water changes the prospects of which horse has the best chance to win. Who turns it on and off? I know players on track that watch when the water truck runs between races as part of their handicapping tool box. A good reason to be on track.

All true.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by jelly

All Websites and blogs that support lower takeout should be giving Free advertising to any track with low takeout bets.This will not make the tracks with High takeout happy.


I don't know why I don't see more advertising/Banners (that support lower takeout)coming from horseracing sites.


The racetracks,owners and trainers don't own the Internet.

The problem with that is that racetracks offer a takeout reductions for a

• short duration
• offer only one or two pools at reduced rates while the others are significantly higher
• conduct the racing on synthetic surface
• offer a short meet
• offer short fields

Usually it a combination of the above items.

The racetrack that is in a position to give all of the above is set
to gain a starved audience. A racetrack like Tampa Bay Downs would do well with this and run. This racetrack will not ever need slots if they make all the right moves.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by andymays

Suspending Play is the only answer.

I'm for a three day or a week suspension of play at the Oak Tree meet to protest the upcoming increase. If it is successful I am for another suspension of play within a month.

If the short suspensions are successful they will gain momentum and participants like a snowball down a hill. The ensuing avalanche will turn the tide.

Sorry Andy.
But that sounds like an answer Al Gore would present. Waffling on the issue.

Either you continue to bite the bullets of

• short fields
• synthetics racing
• increase in takeouts

or you do not.

Should The Governator sign bill 1072, the only way to get the leaders of California racing to reconsider and do what is right is to speak loud as possible at the betting windows.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by The_Knight_Sky

Sorry Andy.
But that sounds like an answer Al Gore would present. Waffling on the issue.

Either you continue to bite the bullets of

• short fields
• synthetics racing
• increase in takeouts

or you do not.

Should The Governator sign bill 1072, the only way to get the leaders of California racing to reconsider and do what is right is to speak loud as possible at the betting windows.

I believe my solution is best. Part of the reason is that there is no way to reach the majority of Horseplayers effectively. The publicity from a successful short suspension of play will parlay to the next one. It may turn into a long term deal but to get the ball rolling I think my way is the best way.

One of the reasons that "whales" or "syndicates" might not want to participate is that they worry they will give an edge to their competition if the competion keeps playing. An initial short term suspension of play helps with that group as well.

In theory if everyone stopped playing long term that's the best way to go but it's not even close to being realistic.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by andymays

I believe my solution is best. Part of the reason is that there is no way to reach the majority of Horseplayers effectively. The publicity from a successful short suspension of play will parlay to the next one. It may turn into a long term deal but to get the ball rolling I think my way is the best way.

One of the reasons that "whales" or "syndicates" might not want to participate is that they worry they will give an edge to their competition if the competion keeps playing. An initial short term suspension of play helps with that group as well.

In theory if everyone stopped playing long term that's the best way to go but it's not even close to being realistic.

AM,
It could be effective IMO if there were also troops “on the ground” each time to demonstrate, maybe even drive large banners past the track gates.

We can’t be invisible.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by andymays

In theory if everyone stopped playing long term
that's the best way to go but it's not even close to being realistic.

Those who play $50 a race and above are already well informed
about the situation. That's the category I fall into and perhaps a majority here at PA and around the web.

The whales have their own choice to make - pass or play against competition that got tougher on two fronts. They're not after the "minnows". Trying to convince $2 bettors not to play isn't worthwhile. 99% of them simply won't have the proficiency to break-even and fully expect to lose their leisure dollars anyway.

The core bettors is where the focus should be.
Those few would speak far more loudly than a school of fishes.

________________________________________

On a related note, I have not found any information on whether
The Governator is actually going to sign this bill on ________ date
Has there been any recent news that we should all be aware of ?

[BlueShoe]

Originally Posted by thespaah

BTW, is it not true that Casino sports books collect the vig up front when a wager is made?

Correct. When taking or laying the points in football or basketball you put up 11-10. If you win you get the juice back, ie, put up 11 units, if win get back 21 units. The house pc, or vig, is 4.545%. Horseplayers would go wild with ecstasy for a takeout such as this. Even with such a comparatively low takeout, long term profits in sports betting is very difficult to acheive, it is not as easy as it might seem at first glance.

[rwwupl]

The _Knight_Sky wrote:

On a related note, I have not found any information on whether
The Governator is actually going to sign this bill on ________ date
Has there been any recent news that we should all be aware of ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

California political news & opinion

california legislation > AB 2414

Italicized text includes proposed additions to law or the previous version of the bill.
Struck text includes proposed deletions to law or the previous version of the bill.

(pdf version)
PASSED THE SENATE AUGUST 31, 2010
PASSED THE ASSEMBLY AUGUST 31, 2010
AMENDED IN SENATE AUGUST 31, 2010
AMENDED IN SENATE AUGUST 20, 2010
AMENDED IN SENATE AUGUST 17, 2010
AMENDED IN SENATE JUNE 22, 2010
AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY APRIL 15, 2010

INTRODUCED BY Assembly Member John A. Perez

FEBRUARY 19, 2010

An act to add Section 19604.7 to, and to repeal Article 9.1
(commencing with Section 19604.5) of Chapter 4 of Division 8 of, the
Business and Professions Code, relating to horse racing.


LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST


AB 2414, John A. Perez. Horse racing: exchange wagering.
SB 1072 of the 2009-10 Regular Session would enact provisions
relating to exchange wagering, as defined.
This bill would make those provisions inoperative on May 1, 2016,
and would repeal them on January 1, 2017.
This bill would become operative only if SB 1072 of the 2009-10
Regular Session is enacted and this bill is enacted last.



THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. Section 19604.7 is added to the Business and
Professions Code, to read:
19604.7. This article shall become inoperative on May 1, 2016,
and, as of January 1, 2017, is repealed, unless a later enacted
statute, that becomes operative on or before January 1, 2017, deletes
or extends the dates on which it becomes inoperative and is
repealed.
SEC. 2. Section 1 of this act shall become operative only if SB
1072 of the 2009-10 Regular Session is enacted, that bill adds
Article 9.1 (commencing with Section 19604.5) to Chapter 4 of
Division 8 of the Business and Professions Code, and this bill is
enacted last.
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Note: The Governor left on a trade mission to Asia Aug 9th, He will return before the first of the month and study the findings of what information his Staff have gathered for him, and sign or veto.

rwwupl

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

Note: The Governor left on a trade mission to Asia Aug 9th, He will return before the first of the month and study the findings of what information his Staff have gathered for him, and sign or veto.

rwwupl

rrwupl how would you set the odds on this Bill 1072

Sign: _____ %

Veto: _____%

Ignore (and becomes law automatically) ______%

[andymays]

Originally Posted by The_Knight_Sky

rrwupl how would you set the odds on this Bill 1072

Sign: _____ %

Veto: _____%

Ignore (and becomes law automatically) ______%

The only way the Governator doesn't sign the bill is if California falls into the ocean.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by The_Knight_Sky

rrwupl how would you set the odds on this Bill 1072

Sign: _____ %

Veto: _____%

Ignore (and becomes law automatically) ______%

The odds are that the Governor will sign the bill and claim victory.

Then the second half begins...and the action starts at the CHRB. It is expected that they will also approve a request by the racetracks for the increase on two and three horse exotic bets,but they have a lot more info. now than they had when this was started.

Horseplayers will adjust their game in California to win, place show (I will be among them)@15.68% and continue to find other places to play the exotics.

When trend lines and handle are going down, that is a natural boycott, and a formal boycott would be pointed to do the same thing, so economic forces are doing the work now.

I am informed the new rate for D.D's and exactas @ 22.68 will be the highest in the nation for this type of bet, and is certain to continue the downward trend lines for handle in California.

It is hard to understand why the regulators do not get it,unless you consider a "Me first attitude" or an unconscious conflict of interest. The majority on the CHRB are licensed horsemen...And members of the TOC, a horsemens advocate group, and the increase is to go 100% for horsemens purses.