For the 10th time: Sources: Santa Anita going back to dirt - Page 9 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

ezpace · 08-20-2010, 01:16 AM

successful builder of a warm climate*MAJOR* dirt track in the last 20 years .

IOW , Who can build one?? MON doesn't count.. I'm

a dirt racing and TURF RACING!!! 40yr

FAN. GET tHE DOPE ENFORCEMENT *TAKE OUT* AND TRACK SURFACE RIGHT

RACING HAS A CHANCE.

Fager Fan · 08-20-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I'm suspicious of this whole "have to travel to Spain" to find a dirt track. I'm also concerned about reports of them wanting to do this on the cheap.

Anyone else think they may be trading for nothing but a different set of headaches?

I like that they seem to have done a lot of research into the best direction to go. And it flies in the face of the idea that he's trying to do this "on the cheap" which sounds like nothing more than rumors spread by Stronach detractors to me. The man's never done anything on the cheap. He built Palm Meadows which people rave over as the best training facility in the country. When they redid Laurel, people raved about the track surface he put in. People may not like some of his facility design, but they've never complained about the track surfaces except for the synth at SA.

It defies logic that Stronach's going to do anything but put in the best dirt surface he can.

BluegrassProf · 08-20-2010, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

...sounds like nothing more than rumors spread by Stronach detractors to me.

...It defies logic that Stronach's going to do anything but put in the best dirt surface he can.

I heart the polarization of these things - "Stronach detractors?" Really really? How long 'til "haters" gets tossed out there? C'mon GM, you know you want to...

But seriously, folks. Stronach doing something silly? Definitely defines logic. Deeefinitely.

*facepalm*

Fager Fan · 08-20-2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluegrassProf

I heart the polarization of these things - "Stronach detractors?" Really really? How long 'til "haters" gets tossed out there? C'mon GM, you know you want to...

But seriously, folks. Stronach doing something silly? Definitely defines logic. Deeefinitely.

*facepalm*

You really want to claim that there aren't Stronach detractors out there? It's one thing to constructively criticize something or someone and another to toss grenades at everything someone does. There are people who are definitely in the latter camp as it regards Stronach.

In this case, they've got to completely tear out what's there, including the base, and therefore put in a new base and surface, all to the tune of $5 to $6 million. Where is the logic in spending that kind of money to do something half-ass that's going to cost you millions if you do it half-ass?

I'll again point out that while there can be justified criticism of some of Stronach's plans and/or facilities, he's also done some things very right. The idea that he's going to put in a half-ass dirt track sounds like an idea straight from the Stronach detractors.

I don't say "haters." I don't care to think and talk like a 12yo.

Pick6 · 08-20-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueShoe

Does that mean actually importing soil from South America? Do they know just how far away Argentina is, and how expensive it would to be to transport by ship the hundreds of tons of dirt that would be required to build the track?

All I believe they want to get from the South America track is the right mix of sand/silt/clay/organic material that makes up their surface. Most likely these base materials are widely available in CA.

The most important concerns are:
-keeping rocks out of the mix;
-drainage;
-ability to seal to satisfy 5 days/week racing. Too much clay and it turns into concrete when it's sealed.

Foundation should be fine. I don't think that was ever changed when they installed poly.

DeanT · 08-20-2010, 12:40 PM

I agree Fager. He does not want to have a crap surface. If we remember, the old SA surface was not exactly peachy. TUP with a similar surface and climate was washed away last year for days. That is a weird climate - for poly or the old dirt. I hope they find something more consistent and that can handle that climate and is better for the horses than the old one was.

elhelmete · 08-20-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Did they have to go that far because of weather concerns? I don't think the weather in Argentina (which is quite varied depending on how far north or south you go) is very comparable to the weather in S. California...so why this need to travel?

Comparing months in which SA and Palermo historically run (incl October for OSA), I found some rudimentary historical averages for Sierra Madre, CA and Buenos Aires (both using the closest weather station that Google says is near each track):

Santa Anita is...

Average hi temp is 0.9 degrees cooler
Average lo temp is 5 degrees cooler
Average precip is 0.5" drier

pretty darn close except for the cold mornings.

tubesockshakur · 08-20-2010, 01:21 PM

the big diff. may be humidity??

beertapper · 08-20-2010, 01:26 PM

wasn't it Bruce Headley that said the CA tracks went downhill when they started introducing sawdust / wood chips into the track ?

Pick6 · 08-20-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Comparing months in which SA and Palermo historically run (incl October for OSA), I found some rudimentary historical averages for Sierra Madre, CA and Buenos Aires (both using the closest weather station that Google says is near each track):

Santa Anita is...

Average hi temp is 0.9 degrees cooler
Average lo temp is 5 degrees cooler
Average precip is 0.5" drier

pretty darn close except for the cold mornings.

This is certainly a solid first order approximation for what SA will need. Other factors will come into play, such as exposure to sun, wind, amount of racing, suitability of racing all-year (which is what Stronach appears to want there), trainer preferences, etc.

andymays · 08-20-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beertapper

wasn't it Bruce Headley that said the CA tracks went downhill when they started introducing sawdust / wood chips into the track ?

Yes.

andymays · 08-20-2010, 03:59 PM

Jeremy Plonk: Dr. Phil couldn't help Santa Anita - ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=5479731

Excerpt:

In the end, no one trusted what the next person was saying. Even facts became emotional; and when you have that, you're done communicating.

thespaah · 08-20-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gm10

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.

FenceBored · 08-21-2010, 01:08 PM

How much of the cost of of switching tracks is going to be the disposal of the current cushion material? I'm thinking specialized disposal at an inflated price tag.

andymays · 08-21-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenceBored

How much of the cost of of switching tracks is going to be the disposal of the current cushion material? I'm thinking specialized disposal at an inflated price tag.

I know where they could shove it for free!