Dems losing ground?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Tom

Are you prepared to declare another 100 years right now?

Trump is declaring it for us.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by hcap

Trump is declaring it for us.

Trump/GOP policy has ballooned the deficit by 30% in its first fiscal year while expanding government.

For all the Europhobia among conservatives when looking at states like Greece, Spain, and Italy... they are the ones bringing it here.

The country is moving left.

But at least they are against gay marriage and abortion.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by hcap

Trump is declaring it for us.

That is not the question.
Are YOU declaring another 100 years?

Not so certain this time around?

[davew]

Originally Posted by hcap

Trump is declaring it for us.

at least he hasn't declared what I need to 'buy' ...

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by davew

at least he hasn't declared what I need to 'buy' ...

You musta missed his trade policy.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Trump/GOP policy has ballooned the deficit by 30% in its first fiscal year while expanding government.

For all the Europhobia among conservatives when looking at states like Greece, Spain, and Italy... they are the ones bringing it here.

The country is moving left.

But at least they are against gay marriage and abortion.

It was moving left demographically. And at least under Obama the swamp was not overflowing. Scandals were pretty much nonexistent.

What do you think the future of the Republican party is?
The cultists here are not republicans.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by hcap

It was moving left demographically. And at least under Obama the swamp was not overflowing. Scandals were pretty much nonexistent.

What do you think the future of the Republican party is?
The cultists here are not republicans.

Trumpism isn't a left/right movement. Its a populist one and because of that its not really sustainable. Even less so in a system of Government like America has... look at the progressive movement of Teddy.

The battleground for the foreseeable future is and possibly always will be Surburbia, USA. Trump's populist movement performed well there because of two factors: 1) Hillary was an awful candidate 2) Overall democrat hangover. Meanwhile he romped in Rural America while Hillary underperformed in Urban America being due to the fact she is a moderate and a moderate was thought needed to have hope for a 3rd term.

I think the Republican party is going to tilt into this weird nationalist/socialist territory that mostly is aimed to benefit middle to low income rural America... until that backfires... which it will... shortly... its already begun.

The more interesting thing we are seeing is with the increase of globalism, social media, transfer of information, etc.

Its allowing what are typically grassroots movements, non-mainstream ideas and people to connect in ways never before possible. The two-party system may never go away but I think the election of Trump and the emergence of a Bernie wing of the Democratic party shows that politics is going to become much more diverse... and "representative"... which is a good thing.

As a side note: The Executive Branch of this country needs to be taken to the woodshed. Will Trump be the one that causes that to happen? I don't know... but its coming.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Trumpism isn't a left/right movement. Its a populist one and because of that its not really sustainable. Even less so in a system of Government like America has... look at the progressive movement of Teddy.

The battleground for the foreseeable future is and possibly always will be Surburbia, USA. Trump's populist movement performed well there because of two factors: 1) Hillary was an awful candidate 2) Overall democrat hangover. Meanwhile he romped in Rural America while Hillary underperformed in Urban America being due to the fact she is a moderate and a moderate was thought needed to have hope for a 3rd term.

I think the Republican party is going to tilt into this weird nationalist/socialist territory that mostly is aimed to benefit middle to low income rural America... until that backfires... which it will... shortly... its already begun.

The more interesting thing we are seeing is with the increase of globalism, social media, transfer of information, etc.

Its allowing what are typically grassroots movements, non-mainstream ideas and people to connect in ways never before possible. The two-party system may never go away but I think the election of Trump and the emergence of a Bernie wing of the Democratic party shows that politics is going to become much more diverse... and "representative"... which is a good thing.

As a side note: The Executive Branch of this country needs to be taken to the woodshed. Will Trump be the one that causes that to happen? I don't know... but its coming.

I agree with much of this. But the longer term trend worldwide even before the information revolution is the mixing of capitalism and socialism. Raw energy of unregulated markets are fundamentally narrow, but dynasmic. Even Adam Smith argued that "bank regulation was as necessary as fire codes on urban buildings"

After WWII this mixing occurred in Europe and Japan and much of the developed world. It ended the soviet union and it's experiment with communism. Added social safety nets worldwide. Even here. The trade off is a larger tax bite versus greater quality of life as the Scandinavians have demonstrated.

Globalism and info revolution I think is also a result of this mixing. Certain human endeavors require large scale organization. One of the first non wartime examples was the space program. Sometimes scaling up allows revolution.

Now of course the private sector has been mixed in. It has happened globally in most western industrialized countries health care systems as well.

This trend goes against simplistic populism and dumbed down isolationist nationalism. I think though, authoritarian movements are on the rise. The very dark side of the rise of Trump and is a crazy movement attempting to manipulate what people think, ala George Orwell

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by hcap

I agree with much of this. But the longer term trend worldwide even before the information revolution is the mixing of capitalism and socialism. Raw energy of unregulated markets are fundamentally narrow, but dynasmic. Even Adam Smith argued that "bank regulation was as necessary as fire codes on urban buildings"

After WWII this mixing occurred in Europe and Japan and much of the developed world. It ended the soviet union and it's experiment with communism. Added social safety nets worldwide. Even here. The trade off is a larger tax bite versus greater quality of life as the Scandinavians have demonstrated.

Globalism and info revolution I think is also a result of this mixing. Certain human endeavors require large scale organization. One of the first non wartime examples was the space program. Sometimes scaling up allows revolution.

Now of course the private sector has been mixed in. It has happened globally in most western industrialized countries health care systems as well.

This trend goes against simplistic populism and dumbed down isolationist nationalism. I think though, authoritarian movements are on the rise. The very dark side of the rise of Trump and is a crazy movement attempting to manipulate what people think, ala George Orwell

The rise of Authoritarianism is a side-effect of this increase of tribalism and identity politics we are seeing. It's a reactionary response whenever the concept of "community" is threatened. Think of that "one black family" in the small town. Except now the town is a country and that black family can be a whole swath of people.

There will be push back. Its normal and healthy. Even if that is viewed as a negative though that same expanding sense of community allows the groups of people to more easily organize.

Overall representative democracy as we currently think of it is becoming a bit outdated. It will have to change as it has throughout American history to adapt. What will eventually happen is a return to Tocqueville America with much more power resting in Congress and the courts.

A lot of the terms we use today to describe stuff will have to be reassessed because they are quickly becoming outdated anyway.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

The rise of Authoritarianism is a side-effect of this increase of tribalism and identity politics we are seeing. It's a reactionary response whenever the concept of "community" is threatened. Think of that "one black family" in the small town. Except now the town is a country and that black family can be a whole swath of people.

There will be push back. Its normal and healthy. Even if that is viewed as a negative though that same expanding sense of community allows the groups of people to more easily organize.

Overall representative democracy as we currently think of it is becoming a bit outdated. It will have to change as it has throughout American history to adapt. What will eventually happen is a return to Tocqueville America with much more power resting in Congress and the courts.

A lot of the terms we use today to describe stuff will have to be reassessed because they are quickly becoming outdated anyway.

I am getting concerned. Paranoia or not, swaying mass opinion has become a fine art/science. Madison avenue has grown up in the electronic age. From the fledgling original ad campaign to convince woman to smoke cigarettes(Chesterfields) back in the 20'ss, to Hitler adapting adverrtisig as propaganda.

Today behavioral psychology although cude and more subtle subliminal cues direct our attention in very sophisticated ways. Ultimately powers with the big supercomputers and advances in behavioral studies have the advantage nany times over.

Soon advances in quantum computing will multiply ability to "Manufacte Consent". A topic covered by

Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a book written by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky, in which the authors propose that the mass communication media of the U.S. "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda

I have referebced 1984 a few times. It may be coming. Now we have a very dumbed down "big brother", but that may not always be the case. Something to worry about.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by hcap

I am getting concerned. Paranoia or not, swaying mass opinion has become a fine art/science. Madison avenue has grown up in the electronic age. From the fledgling original ad campaign to convince woman to smoke cigarettes(Chesterfields) back in the 20'ss, to Hitler adapting adverrtisig as propaganda.

Today behavioral psychology although cude and more subtle subliminal cues direct our attention in very sophisticated ways. Ultimately powers with the big supercomputers and advances in behavioral studies have the advantage nany times over.

Soon advances in quantum computing will multiply ability to "Manufacte Consent". A topic covered by
I have referebced 1984 a few times. It may be coming. Now we have a very dumbed down "big brother", but that may not always be the case. Something to worry about.

Well we are either gonna get a lot of things wrong before we get them right or we'll wind up in Dystopia...

As a society our level of education/awareness has never been further removed from the massive amount of knowledge at our fingertips.

These things take time to catch up.

[fast4522]

Quantum technology is already in use with the military industrial complex, commercial availability a few years out. Massive amounts of knowledge will never be at our fingertips for the asking.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by fast4522

Quantum technology is already in use with the military industrial complex, commercial availability a few years out. Massive amounts of knowledge will never be at our fingertips for the asking.

Not yet. Any evidence?

Here's Scientific American as of May 30, 2018

How Close Are We—Really—to Building a Quantum Computer?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ntum-computer/

...Such a machine is likely more than a decade away, but IBM, Microsoft, Google, Intel and other tech heavyweights breathlessly tout each tiny, incremental step along the way. Most of these milestones involve packing ever more quantum bits, or qubits—the basic unit of information in a quantum computer—onto a processor chip. But the path to quantum computing involves far more than wrangling subatomic particles.

[Tom]

Hmmmmmm.
A Q Computer.

Maybe closer than you think!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Tom

Hmmmmmm.
A Q Computer.

Maybe closer than you think!

Maybe. But I asked fast for evidence. I know you have none, but I will ask you anyway?
Evidence?