Herding in NY

[Trips]

Race 7 at AQU. another example of how herding is becoming an acceptable tactic all to often in NYRA racing. Why the stewards allow it is beyond me. Outcomes of races are changed by these tactics being allowed.

[Robert Fischer]

I don't know...


That was in the shadow of the wire...

He lugged out/herded in deep stretch, where the battle was on. Head-to-head drive for the wire.

was beginning to even-out, by the time the incident occurred.

The would have rolled on by, if he had more horse. The didn't quit, and benefited from saving some ground.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I don't know...


That was in the shadow of the wire...

He lugged out/herded in deep stretch, where the battle was on. Head-to-head drive for the wire.

was beginning to even-out, by the time the incident occurred.

The would have rolled on by, if he had more horse. The didn't quit, and benefited from saving some ground.

It wasn't in the shadow of the wire. Haikal had the race won, and Junior herded him out on the horse that was going to finish second. The Stewards consistently allow that kind of thing to stand. I strongly disagree with them.

No question in my mind Haikal would have won had he not been herded three or four paths.

[Tom]

A lot riders would be better suited to Roller Derby.
Probably a lot of stewards as well.

[aaron]

That was blatant and intentional.Junior was whipping with the wrong hand and came out. I guess these days,that is considered race riding.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by the little guy

It wasn't in the shadow of the wire. Haikal had the race won, and Junior herded him out on the horse that was going to finish second. The Stewards consistently allow that kind of thing to stand. I strongly disagree with them.

No question in my mind Haikal would have won had he not been herded three or four paths.

You're right; "Shadow of the wire" is inaccurate.

I thought Haikal hung a bit, and Carmouche and Haikal had their chance to win, but I'll defer to you here.

There was significant herding in this incident.

You know these horses and the dynamics. It's likely that you are right about this.

The stewards do consistently allow herding to occur, even more egregious examples than this race.

It is a problem. I disagree with the stewards that herding should be the standard, for allowable race-riding.

Then, when there is a big stakes race, this standard sometimes suddenly changes (e.g. JCGC).

[clicknow]

Its like the guys "driving" logging trucks around where I live.


When somebody gets killed, then they start looking at the problem.

[taxicab]

I think the stewards are OK on this one.
NY racing allows herding,so it makes sense the order of finish held.
The stewards probably factored in Manny Franco moving in nearly three lanes.
Then Alvarado (who moved in close to a lane because of Franco) whips one time and comes out three lanes or so........just about putting the back in his original lane.
If Franco keeps his horse straight at the pole,instead of bringing him in a three spot then the final furlong is much cleaner.
If it's another circuit maybe a DQ..........but right or wrong it appears they don't DQ for herding in NY.

[FantasticDan]

Herding in PA.. in the 1st today at Parx. The eventual winner bore out against the late on the backstretch, causing the to clip heels and lose her rider. The horse ran on and didn't appear to be injured. I hope the same can be said for the jock..

An inquiry then placed the from 1st to last.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by taxicab

I think the stewards are OK on this one.
NY racing allows herding,so it makes sense the order of finish held.
The stewards probably factored in Manny Franco moving in nearly three lanes.
Then Alvarado (who moved in close to a lane because of Franco) whips one time and comes out three lanes or so........just about putting the back in his original lane.
If Franco keeps his horse straight at the pole,instead of bringing him in a three spot then the final furlong is much cleaner.
If it's another circuit maybe a DQ..........but right or wrong it appears they don't DQ for herding in NY.

Thanks to RTN I can see the head on shots.
I would have not DQ'd the winner seeing how far in came. I think if he kept straight, he might have won.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

Herding in PA.. in the 1st today at Parx. The eventual winner bore out against the late on the backstretch, causing the to clip heels and lose her rider. The horse ran on and didn't appear to be injured. I hope the same can be said for the jock..

An inquiry then placed the from 1st to last.

See, there are competent stewards somewhere.

My 2 cents - Parx is THE winter track that doesn't have palm trees.

Dittos concern for the jock.

[classhandicapper]

The problem is that it's not always clear whether any drifting is purposeful herding or unintentional drifting, greenness, bearing in/out due to being tired/sore, or due to legitimate whipping trying to win.

Enforcing it with DQs adds another layer of subjective decision making to stewards that are inconsistent from track to track, day to day and even race to race in cases that are way clearer than herding without contact.

If they are going to change the game, change it with suspensions and fines, not with DQs. The last thing on earth I want is giving the stewards more power/responsibility over the final result. If you think horseplayers go crazy over DQs now, you haven't seen anything.

[Tom]

I agree fines and suspensions only, unless foul is obvious, or maybe after second occurrence during the meet.

You have to punish the people who ride cheaters as well.
Or, fine/suspend the rider, and re-distribute the purse money to make sure owner/trainer are going to police this rider.

[ubercapper]

My recommendation to stop herding, particularly when a result of a jockey hitting the horse with the crop on one side and the horse going the other way, is to get the jockeys to ride as if the "for safety only" whip rules are in place.



"For safety only" crop rules are coming to some, if not most or all, jurisdictions as time goes on so now is a good opportunity to give the jockeys a long lead time to ride as they're going to have to in the future.