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12-05-2011, 12:04 PM
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#1
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Further evidence Gulfstream timing sucks
Check out some of these differences between final times reported by Trakus and Equibase from yesterday:
R-2, T: 1:35.15, E: 1:34.27
R-3, T: 1:43.86, E: 1:43.08
R-6, T: 1:40.39, E: 1:39.78
Nice of them to advertise that what they are putting in the PPs is woefully inaccurate.
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12-05-2011, 12:07 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,554
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Check out some of these differences between final times reported by Trakus and Equibase from yesterday:
R-2, T: 1:35.15, E: 1:34.27
R-3, T: 1:43.86, E: 1:43.08
R-6, T: 1:40.39, E: 1:39.78
Nice of them to advertise that what they are putting in the PPs is woefully inaccurate.
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And they dare call it the "premiere" winter meet in the country... 
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-05-2011, 12:11 PM
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#3
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
And they dare call it the "premiere" winter meet in the country... |
What business in the world would do something like this? They are advertising that something is woefully wrong with their information, but nothing is done to correct it. We are talking between 4 and 6 length differences on those races alone.
Before I totally blame Gulfstream, I will spend some time looking at differences at Woodbine and Keeneland and see if they are similar.
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12-05-2011, 12:20 PM
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#4
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Comfortably Numb
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lexington, Ky
Posts: 6,174
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Check out some of these differences between final times reported by Trakus and Equibase from yesterday:
R-2, T: 1:35.15, E: 1:34.27
R-3, T: 1:43.86, E: 1:43.08
R-6, T: 1:40.39, E: 1:39.78
Nice of them to advertise that what they are putting in the PPs is woefully inaccurate.
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Is Trakus including run-up? They'd have a tough time triggering on the track's start timer unless they were wired directly into it.
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12-05-2011, 12:24 PM
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#5
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BillW
Is Trakus including run-up? They'd have a tough time triggering on the track's start timer unless they were wired directly into it.
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They don't use the run up, same as the official timer. Some races are really close, even to a hundredth or so, while others are way off. Whatever it is, Gulfstream is making itself look foolish reporting two things so different when they are supposedly measuring the same exact thing. They would be better off including run up so at least there would be an explanation other than one of the two systems is wrong.
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12-05-2011, 12:24 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,554
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
What business in the world would do something like this? They are advertising that something is woefully wrong with their information, but nothing is done to correct it. We are talking between 4 and 6 length differences on those races alone.
Before I totally blame Gulfstream, I will spend some time looking at differences at Woodbine and Keeneland and see if they are similar.
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This business is unlike any other in the civilized world, my friend...and it all stems from the total disregard that they have for the wagering public.
Malfunctioning teletimers...missing or "estimated" fractional times...men with binoculars creating the charts, using "lengths" instead of accurate and consistent units of measurement -- the whole thing is mind-boggling.
It's amazing how efficient they are in collecting their percentage though...
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-05-2011, 12:30 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,036
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Check out some of these differences between final times reported by Trakus and Equibase from yesterday:
R-2, T: 1:35.15, E: 1:34.27
R-3, T: 1:43.86, E: 1:43.08
R-6, T: 1:40.39, E: 1:39.78
Nice of them to advertise that what they are putting in the PPs is woefully inaccurate.
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That is simply pathetic!
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12-05-2011, 12:33 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,759
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this sounds like playing three card monte
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12-05-2011, 12:55 PM
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#9
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Traded By Cubs
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 2 miles north of Wrigley Field
Posts: 5,339
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Probably goes back to the old inaccurate race track saying "Time only matters when your in jail."
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12-05-2011, 01:13 PM
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#10
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BillW
Is Trakus including run-up? They'd have a tough time triggering on the track's start timer unless they were wired directly into it.
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hmmm
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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12-05-2011, 01:22 PM
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#11
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,861
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New advertising campaign:
We suck but it's warm here! 
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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12-05-2011, 01:35 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 1,201
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This has been going on for nearly 20 years, at least. When they tore down the old Gulfstream I figured that would be the one good thing to come out of it, but it's at least as bad now as it was then, and it's probably worse.
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12-05-2011, 02:23 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,761
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
What business in the world would do something like this? They are advertising that something is woefully wrong with their information, but nothing is done to correct it. We are talking between 4 and 6 length differences on those races alone.
Before I totally blame Gulfstream, I will spend some time looking at differences at Woodbine and Keeneland and see if they are similar.
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I've noticed that the Trakus final time doesn't always agree with the time in the Equibase chart.
For example, CD on BC Saturday (dirt races only excluding Marathon)
Race Trakus_ -- Equibase = Diff
r01: 1:36.92 -- 1:37.21 = +.29
r02: 1:09.96 -- 1:10.10 = +.14
r05: 1:09.06 -- 1:09.17 = +.11
r07: 1:34.85 -- 1:34.59 = -.26
r09: 1:44.30 -- 1:44.44 = +.14
r11: 2:04.02 -- 2:04.27 = +.25
r12: 1:36.74 -- 1:37.03 = +.29
Not even reliably consistent at a given distance.
Races 1 and 9 were won wire to wire, so even the my first idea that the Trakus final time is influenced by the winners position relative to the first horse to cross the timing beam seems like a non-starter.
Last edited by FenceBored; 12-05-2011 at 02:30 PM.
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12-05-2011, 02:38 PM
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#14
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Comfortably Numb
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lexington, Ky
Posts: 6,174
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Trakus has an error of +/- 2 feet and a sample rate of 30/sec. I'm not sure if Trakus attempts to correct for the sampling error in software or not. +/- 2 feet @50 ft./sec. would be +/- 0.04 sec. and sample error could put them off by another 0.016. Then the sensor is in the saddle and not pasted on the horses nose - more error.
Given a properly functioning timer, Trakus would be suspect in introducing the error. Unfortunately GP is known for malfunctioning timers, so all bets are off. 
Last edited by BillW; 12-05-2011 at 02:41 PM.
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12-05-2011, 03:03 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
This business is unlike any other in the civilized world, my friend...and it all stems from the total disregard that they have for the wagering public.
Malfunctioning teletimers...missing or "estimated" fractional times...men with binoculars creating the charts, using "lengths" instead of accurate and consistent units of measurement -- the whole thing is mind-boggling.
It's amazing how efficient they are in collecting their percentage though...
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Gospel according to Thaskalos.I agree.Amen.The gap in these times is sick.
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