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Old 08-30-2020, 12:23 PM   #1
tbwinner
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Lessons from owning thoroughbreds

I owned horses from 2009 to 2012. Started off with a 5% share with a partnership group to having as many as 9 I think at one time. Won with my first one in partnership and first one off the claim that I owned in whole. So obviously I was hooked from the onset.

As I get the itch to jump back in, I am reflecting on those past years. I lost money, like most horse owners. With day rate, vet, shipping, the costs are astronomical. I dabbled in claimers, never at auctions. Injuries are what hurt the most. I retired three by giving away to good homes(and yes, I ensure they were indeed good homes...one of them was a mare that went back to her original breeder). The other ones injured took 3-9 months off then 2 months back training before they hit a race.

I won at a pretty good clip, something like 20-25%, I'll have to look back. Equibase stats are a bit messed up because I owned a lot in partners with 2 or 3 others and my trainers.

Had a lot of success bringing horses TO Oaklawn. They ran well and got claimed down there. Its a claiming frenzy, well 8 years ago it was and still looks to be. The horses I claimed AT Oaklawn were pretty much duds, but 2 of the 3 were conditioned 3yos that we were banking on improvement. Did not happen. We were also outshook on a lot of horses there.

Anyone have any stories?
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Old 08-30-2020, 12:33 PM   #2
tbwinner
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I'll add another one. May catch some flack for this, but I trusted my trainers too much. Not that they were out to get me, but as we all know trainers are mostly terrible handicappers and bad at reading a form.

Most of the horses I looked at to claim were based on Thorograph numbers, replays, and potential for improvement. Selecting ones based on this and then my trainers' eagle eye in the paddock, we found some good ones.

Had one that was running routes but a few years back ran a pair of sprints that were huge standouts. Trainer had a history of running all his horses long. We claimed and I said we have to run this horse short. We ran back 2x in routes and ran 5th and 6th I think before I said you have to train him back to a sprinter....he won his next out 6F going 6 wide and finishing huge. Paid 11-1 that was nice. Ran back short again ran a huge 2nd missed by a neck I think and Sheets user Maggi Moss claimed him I think for 5k more than we paid, obviously seeing what I saw in him. Really needed to be more adamant about the horse from the beginning.

A lot of the horses they selected had ? marks or needed too much improvement. These turned out to be duds. Should have stuck to what I knew and passed on these. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20...

Best race I won as an owner was Oaklawn opening weekend, out of the 12 hole, paid 4 or 5-1. Was an awesome feeling winning down there.
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Old 08-30-2020, 12:59 PM   #3
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Among my friends that have owned horses, I'd say injuries were the major complaint, but imo the bigger issue is making sure you are partnered with people and a trainer with good judgement about where to spot horses.

If you have a 16k sprinting turf claimer and are in a group that insists on running for 35k or in much tougher ALW races because they don't want to lose the horse or that has fantasies about minor stakes or that insists the horse should get anther chance on dirt despite repeated failures or that wants to try to stretch the horse's speed way beyond is previous limit etc.. you aren't going win as many races as you should and are going to have a tough time. A huge part of it is figuring the horse out quickly, running it where it belongs, and moving it to another track if there are no good spots where you are stabled now. You can't waste starts.
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Old 08-30-2020, 01:30 PM   #4
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. You can't waste starts.

Bingo. Yeah this is the biggest one. You need to enter to win unless you are stakes caliber and racing into a race.

I had one guy who always wanted to claim with me that thought every 5k claim needed to be entered into a stake. Yeah, he wins at 4%...
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Old 08-30-2020, 02:48 PM   #5
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All the injuries get tiresome, but the thrill of winning is incredible. Just got a scan back on one of my 2 y/o's who was lame, will need to be turned out 2-3 months-happens all the time-she will be fine. I'm only in for small(big to me) parts 5%-10% generally.
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Old 08-30-2020, 02:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by tbwinner View Post
I'll add another one. May catch some flack for this, but I trusted my trainers too much. Not that they were out to get me, but as we all know trainers are mostly terrible handicappers and bad at reading a form.

Most of the horses I looked at to claim were based on Thorograph numbers, replays, and potential for improvement. Selecting ones based on this and then my trainers' eagle eye in the paddock, we found some good ones.

Had one that was running routes but a few years back ran a pair of sprints that were huge standouts. Trainer had a history of running all his horses long. We claimed and I said we have to run this horse short. We ran back 2x in routes and ran 5th and 6th I think before I said you have to train him back to a sprinter....he won his next out 6F going 6 wide and finishing huge. Paid 11-1 that was nice. Ran back short again ran a huge 2nd missed by a neck I think and Sheets user Maggi Moss claimed him I think for 5k more than we paid, obviously seeing what I saw in him. Really needed to be more adamant about the horse from the beginning.

A lot of the horses they selected had ? marks or needed too much improvement. These turned out to be duds. Should have stuck to what I knew and passed on these. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20...

Best race I won as an owner was Oaklawn opening weekend, out of the 12 hole, paid 4 or 5-1. Was an awesome feeling winning down there.



First race I won as an owner was at OP (which I have mentioned many times here). It was an incredible feeling! Op is a special place to me
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Old 08-30-2020, 02:51 PM   #7
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Big lesson I have learned:
more bad things happen than good things
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Old 08-30-2020, 03:53 PM   #8
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I would say that about 95% of all owners lose money over the long term. With the cost of training, vets, shoes, etc. most will not win enough to cover expenses and that doesn't even include the price of the horse.
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:28 PM   #9
tbwinner
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I think if I ever did get in again, I would want to own some land and a small farm, or at least a horse trailer for my truck. Cut down on some expense, being able to lay them up at home if needed.

A racing friend of mine said years ago that if I were to consider getting in the game again to go out on my own and train my own. It became a serious thought for a second...If I were single and no kids, I would go work under a trainer for a year or two, go from meet to meet and learn everything I can, then go on my own. Owner trainer...no outside owners lol
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
Among my friends that have owned horses, I'd say injuries were the major complaint, but imo the bigger issue is making sure you are partnered with people and a trainer with good judgement about where to spot horses.

If you have a 16k sprinting turf claimer and are in a group that insists on running for 35k or in much tougher ALW races because they don't want to lose the horse or that has fantasies about minor stakes or that insists the horse should get anther chance on dirt despite repeated failures or that wants to try to stretch the horse's speed way beyond is previous limit etc.. you aren't going win as many races as you should and are going to have a tough time. A huge part of it is figuring the horse out quickly, running it where it belongs, and moving it to another track if there are no good spots where you are stabled now. You can't waste starts.
So, so true!

I was in a wide ranging partnership and we had a relatively inexpensive 2yo with a very wise old NY trainer. East Coast group members were greatly disappointed when horse didn't get to run at Saratoga (though he did train there). Made his debut in a 35K claimer at Belmont (which I personally prefer to Saratoga anyway) in early October against 9 others who'd already run and finished a creditable fourth. Wheeled back 8 days later (ahhh, the good old days!) in the same condition but cutting back from 7f to 6f and won easily at 6-1.

Cue pipedreams.

Email panic ensues when we enter two weeks later in a 50K claimer instead of what many expected/wanted - an allowance before the obvious natural progression to the Nashua and Remsen!

Horse finished 5th of 6 and got claimed by Hushion and the New Top Stable (the sheets players in our group were sure we'd get claimed). Much of group thought trainer was suddenly incompetent.

But the new owners didn't get to go to the Nashua or Remsen either. Horse didn't run back until the following July (although they did get to run at Saratoga with him later that summer), and never won again in 11 more starts with a best finish of 3rd.

Me? Next chance that I saw our trainer after our horse got claimed I thanked him profusely - we wound up ahead overall on that horse, and as we know - that is all too rare!!!!!
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Old 08-31-2020, 07:33 AM   #11
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It's interesting how some trainers are just really good trainers, others are really good at conformation and recommending good buys. Those 2 things don't always line up.

I know who I would take with me if I were looking to purchase a horse, and it wouldn't be the same person who trains it.

Both are a gift, but different types of gifts.

Finding and recognizing good horse flesh, and training it, just seem like different talents.
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Old 08-31-2020, 11:55 AM   #12
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My cousin Michael in Ireland owned, and raced some very high class thoroughbreds.
He's since passed away (Cancer), but when I visited him in 1996 I asked him~

"Michael...Can you make good money owning thoroughbreds?"

He replied:
"Oh ...Yes...Indeed you can.
You can actually make a small fortune...Especially if you start with a big one."
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Old 09-01-2020, 02:25 PM   #13
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Believe we were in contact during that time briefly, tb, when I also owned horses. Will share a couple stories this evening.
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Old 09-02-2020, 02:39 PM   #14
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Biggest lesson I learned was: you need good general management and must have agreement among your group about who makes the important decisions. While my group had that we did OK. But once our general partner got sick and had to relinquish his duties, things that were (or which SEEMED) simple suddenly became contentious.

Once it became clear we couldn't go on any further, a couple of us bought out the others are partnered with a trainer at another PA track. "Miraculously" the horses began to win. They were spotted in slightly easier spots, but giving the trainer a greater incentive to win seemed to do the trick.

With respect to trusting trainers too much: It's been awhile, and I may be fuzzy on some of the details, but we had a filly at Parx who showed sub 22 speed in her first couple of PA bred MSW races, and then faded. Communication with the trainer was not great, to say the least, and there seemed to be some bad blood developing. Our group tried to smooth it over before any decision was made to move her out of his care, and things seemed like they improved for awhile.

The plan was to drop her into a claiming race. She developed a foot injury early the week she was to be entered and the trainer told us she'd likely be scratched. We were disappointed, but of course that's what you do.

Two days later, I get a notice that she's been entered. 5 or 6 horse field. When we got to the track, we all seemed a bit surprised that she had been entered, but the trainer made these calls of course. She looked ok warming up, but I had a weird feeling. She was 2-5 on the board or lower the whole time. About a minute to post, it occurred to me how easy it would be to hit the trifecta if it turned out she couldn't run, since there were only 3 other horses in the race that looked like they could stand up.

She went out to a 3 length lead as I recall and then, on the turn, was pulled up. She crossed the line about 50 lengths behind the winner. She never raced again, and we removed all of our horses from him thereafter. Hard to convince me the trainer didn't enter her to punish us.
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:00 PM   #15
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With respect to trusting trainers too much: It's been awhile, and I may be fuzzy on some of the details, but we had a filly at Parx who showed sub 22 speed in her first couple of PA bred MSW races, and then faded. Communication with the trainer was not great, to say the least, and there seemed to be some bad blood developing. Our group tried to smooth it over before any decision was made to move her out of his care, and things seemed like they improved for awhile.



Two days later, I get a notice that she's been entered.

She never raced again, and we removed all of our horses from him thereafter. Hard to convince me the trainer didn't enter her to punish us.
Do you still own, bks? I somewhat remember talking to you too back near 10 years ago...

I only had two times where a horse was entered against our plans. One time was to make a race go, and we would scratch...OK, that's fine but at least let me know so I am not surprised by an entry notification. The other was sticking a horse back in 10 days after a tough beat, I wasn't very happy but trusted their judgement, after all, they saw him everyday. If I remember right, he ran OK.

The vet bills hurt. One of the five trainers I had used during the 3 years believed anything and everything should be treated. There were times where a 5k claimer had a $1,400 bill. One time I showed the bills to a respected, long-time horseman who won at a lifetime 15%, he said most of that stuff was bullsh!t and a little time and training changes could have cured most of it. That made me even more sick and was near the exit for my ownership. I should dig up one of the bills and post some of the stuff here.
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