Unbelievable/Joe Sharp Blackberry Wine

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Tom

Again, Tough S***.

It is the owner's responsibility.
He owns the horse, he hires the trainer.
He should be the PRIMARY recipient of all penalties.

When you get your car hit by a Fed Ex truck, do you make excuses for the Fed Ex CEO because HE was not in the truck?

Did the owners of Major League Baseball teams know about their players using steroids during the steroid era?

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Never heard anyone claim that?

They are on-board with the new plan along with Churchill Downs Inc., New York Racing Association Inc. Stronach Group, Del Mar, Keeneland, Lone Star Park, Remington Park, Los Alamitos Racecourse, and Tampa Bay regarding Lasix use (would be banned for 2-year-old horses within 24 hours of a race and in 2021, would extend to all horses in any stakes races).

They have boosted their drug testing budget every year, (enhanced daily testing and out-of-competition testing) but I have never heard that it's stricter than any other race track?

Their breakdown rate was below the 5.2 average of all tracks last I heard.

They know how to treat their customers and horsemen; they re-surface their track every year; they are in a town that supports racing, they are very innovative and offered lasix free racing with a 10% bonus were pioneers in simulcasting.

But it's always been common knowledge that Cella was openly critical of the NTRA in the early days and has never been a full member so do not report to JC equine injury database.

So I personally have never heard they have "the strictest drug rules in racing"? other than boosting their testing a tad every year.

Was being sarcastic. The horsemen know what is being tested for. And what they can use, because it is not being tested for. The drug rules are easy to get by. Sort of like telling a drug addict on parole, we are going to test you weekly for cocaine and opiods. But not for pot.

[proximity]

since the vast, vast majority of horses break their maidens in maiden races, why even pollute the thread with such an incredibly hypothetical example?

even more laughable is the opinion that there are owners for 30% trainers who just innocently stumbled into the situation like they're the jed clampett of horseracing. absurd.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Tom

Again, Tough S***.

It is the owner's responsibility.
He owns the horse, he hires the trainer.
He should be the PRIMARY recipient of all penalties.

Owner is also primary recipient of all VET BILLS.

Agree.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Was being sarcastic. The horsemen know what is being tested for. And what they can use, because it is not being tested for. The drug rules are easy to get by. Sort of like telling a drug addict on parole, we are going to test you weekly for cocaine and opiods. But not for pot.

Okay, I gotcha.

I sometimes think fans don't even know what they want. They SAY they want certain things, but when I'm at the track and listen to conversations I'm convinced they don't really care. I see the track personnel inspecting lip tatoos, and the horse is standing there all jiggly and electrified....while just standing there. Others are coming around the corner in the paddock area and they're lit......I don't mean like the normal high strung nature of a thoroughbred, I mean lit up.

And the fans are like "oh he's ready to go" or "oh look at him, he doesn't even want to stop to have his tatoo read".....and they LOVE these hopped up horses who act like wall streeters in the 80s who just ducked out of the mens room after a little visit with their cocaine. (I remember when they were admired, too, greed is good, right?)

Then the horses who look like they are going to fall asleep in the post parade. It's late afternoon, they've been dehydrated from lasix for many hours, and pumped thru with anti-inflams for most of the month.......they should be napping in their stall and instead they are having to race.

And, fans love big fields, so you're going to get a certain amount of druggers.

We need some serious regulation here.

[tbwinner]

who CARES about the owner here??? If they knew something they bet and screwed the BETTORS out of their wagering dollars. Two times, now possibly three times!!!!

[cj]

Agree with most here, owner is ultimately responsible. Maybe it would make them think twice about who they send their horses to in the future.

[green80]

Originally Posted by Tom

Again, Tough S***.

It is the owner's responsibility.
He owns the horse, he hires the trainer.
He should be the PRIMARY recipient of all penalties.

When you get your car hit by a Fed Ex truck, do you make excuses for the Fed Ex CEO because HE was not in the truck?

I disagree.


I guess if a jockey commits a foul or uses a buzzer they should fine or suspend the owner of the horse by your line of thinking. That should stop anyone from wanting to own horses and put an end to racing.

[BIG49010]

Originally Posted by cj

Agree with most here, owner is ultimately responsible. Maybe it would make them think twice about who they send their horses to in the future.

I agree 100% with CJ, and a battle that is waged by the majority of the horse owners is the deduction of the losses from racing, against winnings. The IRS thinks that if you loose money every year, which the majority of owners do on a regular basis, it is a hobby! If you think it is a business, and you want to deduct expenses, then you can't say your not responsible for any of the decisions that are made, that just isn't the way business is conducted.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by green80

I disagree.


I guess if a jockey commits a foul or uses a buzzer they should fine or suspend the owner of the horse by your line of thinking. That should stop anyone from wanting to own horses and put an end to racing.

The jockey is an employee. The owner and trainer make the decision to dope a horse.

[Appy]

I never met Joe Sharp, so I don't know his inclinations. But I heard all his positives were for the same substance and that substance was an ingredient in the wormer he used. He mentioned it was a wormer product new to him The active effects of some wormers can be for a period of 120 days. I am liberal enough to believe that is a mistake an honest guy could easily make. I sure can't name every single ingredient in the wormers I use. And even if I could I don't know enough to know what each one is or why it's in there. You just assume it is a legally acceptable substance in an over the counter product that everyone uses. Unless they prove the wormer was illegally laced with a banned PED and he knowingly administered it knowing that, I think he might deserve a pass on these infractions. But if the wormer was simply a cover for the PED I would recommend no mercy.

[Appy]

Forgot to mention owners are responsible for paying the bills. They are seldom to never in the barn on a day to day or even weekly basis. They usually do their horse business over the phone. It is the trainer who is responsible for seeing that the horse's needs are provided, including vet care. Trainers get day pay and % of purse. It is very possible that misdeeds occur without owner knowledge. But for owners who are willing to do anything to win, influencing a trainer, or vet, to employ 'unusual methods' is another thing entirely. In any case of infraction the trainer is always at fault even if he attempts to shift the blame to the vet.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by Appy

I never met Joe Sharp, so I don't know his inclinations. But I heard all his positives were for the same substance and that substance was an ingredient in the wormer he used. He mentioned it was a wormer product new to him The active effects of some wormers can be for a period of 120 days. I am liberal enough to believe that is a mistake an honest guy could easily make. I sure can't name every single ingredient in the wormers I use. And even if I could I don't know enough to know what each one is or why it's in there. You just assume it is a legally acceptable substance in an over the counter product that everyone uses. Unless they prove the wormer was illegally laced with a banned PED and he knowingly administered it knowing that, I think he might deserve a pass on these infractions. But if the wormer was simply a cover for the PED I would recommend no mercy.

The mitigating circumstance. OK. Why was he allowed to run the horses that he gave the wormer to? How long to get the first bad test? Two, three weeks? After he was notified of the first positive, he continued to enter horses that had been given the wormer. And they were allowed to run. Could be said he was knowingly entering horses that were considered to be using a PED. And was allowed to by the State Racing Commision.

[Michael]

The part that drive me crazy? When you actually follow these stories you find Bret Calhoun had a positive for levamisole on January 18. He was fined $1000 and the horse placed in last place. (LA stakes) After he agreed with the penalty (prior to Risen Star) ... they let him run the horse again! but even better... the dq allowed his horse to pick up an allowance weight lower bc he "lost" the race.

Long story short. Bret is freakin married to Joe Sharp's mother. (Sara Escudero) and their barns are located across from each other. Sharp got caught post race for Blackberry wine. (Risen Star Feb 15) When he obv knew Bret got the dq.

Garbage like this... is why racing will NEVER make a come back.
Even better... the artcles written to tell the public? they're written after all this happens.

The real issue.. there's no downside to cheating. All that really happens is the trainers assistant or his wife put their name in the pps and take over these same horses.

[Robert Fischer]

some owners just like to go to a high percentage barn. Those guys aren't cheaters, but they want to go to successful operations.


Some other owners have connections to vets and chemists and drug dealers, and they start with super-juicing good horses for one of the most famous super-juicing stakes winning guy, and then they go out to the side and find another guy to super-juice with on the east coast, and use the same drugs/vets/chemists/drug-dealing connections to brazenly cheat and win huge stakes on the east coast.

Some of the owners go to the south-central US and use their drugs/vets/chemists/drug-dealing connections with established super-trainers, and they win meet titles and a bunch of purse money....


it varies...

some owners are definitely directly and intentionally initiating and leading a PED operation.