This doesn't sound good (for Servis and Navarro)

[GMB@BP]

Steve Byk's show today was great. Man was Graham Motion getting upset as he went along.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i suspect we are all going to be seeing commercials on televisions asking if anyone has been damaged by the trainer's and owners of these horses and should receive compensation, just like they do with the Mesothelioma.

Unlikely. The legal doctrines are pretty clear that bettors can't sue over stuff like this.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Some rumors floating about.

Kirk Ziadie - Suspended
Ralph Ziadie - Suspended
Georgina Baxter - Suspended

and more coming?

Not sure those names would actually be a big suprise to anyone? Certainly not Ziadie?

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

What we need going forward is a complete list of the "honest" trainers...so we can tell which past performances are repeatable, and which are not.

No, what we need is for the Horseracing Integrity Act to be brought to the front burner and approved, which would put USADA in charge of drugs & create uniformity in all states for rules & regulations.

Then people like some here wouldn't feel so bitter, and it would also get bettors who have walked away from U.S. horse racing back into the game, and others like me who have drastically reduced their *investment* in races that are held in the U.S. to open their wallets again.

[Suff]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Its like complaining about a lake of oxygen when you climb Mt Everest.

Wish you wouldn't see it that way. See it the same way you’re explaining it “cheating now, cheating then, cheating forever”. So why not burn it is my point.

I have Suffolk real-life race fixing in my theater. Now its called “they knew”.

[azeri98]

Most times when trainers get busted and are outed they are never the same, Drug O'neill, "King Cobra" Jaime Ness, among others never reach those same winning percentages. I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on Diodoro, McKnight, Joe Sharp. I always thought Rudy Rodriquez doped his horses in cycles. There should be a lifetime ban. The deterrent isn't big enough.

[Suff]

I wonder if the FBI has already sent “perserve & protect betting records “ using subpoena’s“ to ADW’s.

Maybe they’ve already penetrated the wagering accounts but maybe not. I’m sure they have shit-ton of medication related evidence, but I want to see the wagers.

Its a long snake from the backside to the windows.

I imagine there’s dozens of people trying to delete their betting accounts right about now. Its a long snake, friends, family, shills.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Suff

I wonder if the FBI has already sent “perserve & protect betting records “ using subpoena’s“ to ADW’s.

Maybe they’ve already penetrated the wagering accounts but maybe not. I’m sure they have shit-ton of medication related evidence, but I want to see the wagers.

Its a long snake from the backside to the windows.

I imagine there’s dozens of people trying to delete their betting accounts right about now. Its a long snake, friends, family, shills.

Guessing these guys were betting somewhere that gave healthy rebates. Now we know where all the late action on Bon Raison on Saturday came from.

Nothing would surprise me. Were they betting heavy? Working with computer betting teams? Fixing races among themselves? It's all on the table IMO. Greedy cheaters have no boundaries.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

You know who I have little time sympathizing with? Horseplayers complaining that they were somehow wronged or duped. People who were new to the track, sure. People on this board, not so much. Everyone knew these guys were cheats, if you bet into the races that they were in then you have no room to complain that you were wronged. Racing was wronged, not experienced horse players.

I think most cheat so I dont bet much anymore. Certainly nothing close (maybe 5% of what I used to). This indictment was just confirmation of what everyone knew.

You don't sympathize with the horseplayer because you say that he wasn't duped or wronged...since he "knew all along what he was getting into". But then you say that "Racing was wronged". Which facet of "Racing" do you suppose was wronged due to not knowing what was really going on in the game? Who in the game can honestly say that he was "duped"...since the horseplayer is not afforded this luxury? Or do you mean by "Racing" this faceless entity which amounts to little more than just the game's "reputation"?

[dilanesp]

I sympathize with the horseplayers.

Legally, GB is correct- the law leaves few outs for people who are cheated by betting coups. I suppose that's correct doctrinally; it would just open up too much of a can of worms to allow suits, and GB isn't wrong that horseplayers know that there's some possibility of chicanery when they play the horses and price that in to their decision to play.

But nonetheless, there's a difference between knowing that you live in a high crime neighborhood and that your house might be broken into, and consenting to a break-in. Horseplayers didn't consent to this, and the fact is that everyone who is cheating is injuring a whole bunch of people, including competitors, tracks, their own horses, but among the injured are horseplayers.

[RunDustyRun]

2018 BC turf sprint...stormy liberal and world of trouble almost eight lengths clear of the field...dubb and rockingham ranch...year prior..stormy and richards boy go one two for miller and rockingham...disco partner for clement 3rd both years..doubt we see a Roy H comeback now..

[big frank]

How about punishing the owners ! Averill racing has been juicing for years with different trainers ! Midwest - same thing - Cole ---Dubb------Rockingham------ doesn't matter what trainer is listed ! These guys pay the vets to drug these horses !

[big frank]

I could train horses for Cole -Dubb -Averill-- Bone-Barber--Paolucci--and win 25+ percent

[Irishfever]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1237456119695474688

That aged well.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I sympathize with the horseplayers.

Legally, GB is correct- the law leaves few outs for people who are cheated by betting coups. I suppose that's correct doctrinally; it would just open up too much of a can of worms to allow suits, and GB isn't wrong that horseplayers know that there's some possibility of chicanery when they play the horses and price that in to their decision to play.

But nonetheless, there's a difference between knowing that you live in a high crime neighborhood and that your house might be broken into, and consenting to a break-in. Horseplayers didn't consent to this, and the fact is that everyone who is cheating is injuring a whole bunch of people, including competitors, tracks, their own horses, but among the injured are horseplayers.

GB wasn't talking about the "legal issues" pertaining to the horseplayer claiming that he was "cheated" in this sort of scandal. He said that he doesn't sympathize with the horseplayers in this case because the horseplayers have long suspected that doping was going on in the game. GB has stopped betting on the horses, and the rest of us should have stopped betting too...otherwise we have no right to feel "wronged" when a major scandal like this gets publicized. That's like me saying that I have no sympathy for the honest owners and trainers who were victimized by this sort of cheating...because they too knew what's been "going on in the game"...and they should have looked for another "more honest" occupation/hobby in which to apply their talents.

Come on...does it really cost us MONEY to have some sympathy for people who have clearly been wronged by this sort of criminal activity? Do we always have to analyze things to death first?