Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

what to tell a grieving parent over the loss of a child.

“The impermanence of this floating world
I feel over and over
It is hardest to be the one left behind.”
Otagaki Rengetsu (1791-1875)

I wonder if atheistic evolutionists have their own sacred scriptures they use to use to console a grieving parent. Perhaps something along these lines:

Hey, just count your lucky stars your kid was born in the first place. Don't you realize he was merely a cosmic accident and there was never a rhyme or reason for his/her existence in the first place?

[boxcar]

Calif. Court Rules Christian Baker Cannot Be Forced to Make Cake for Same-Sex Wedding

https://www.christianpost.com/news/c...rce=newsletter

You see, skeptics...there is a God in heaven who performs miracles -- even in the Land of the Sodom and Gomorrah.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

Actually, my college roommate said quite forcefully that "Origin of the Species" was a pack of the Devil's lies, and proved nothing. He was a Thumper, a member of The Navigators, and overall a bit of odd dude, though I'm sure he felt the same about me.

We used to have some, err, interesting discussions about Evolution vs. Creationism. They were not nearly as exciting as his arguments with the Catholic fella down the hall.

Well, it is a pack of lies. But that is not the same thing as saying that "Origin of the Species" proves nothing. I, for one, would never say something that stupid because let's say one day I actually read it and discover statements therein that violate one or more Laws of Logic. How would I be able to appeal to those statements to prove they do violate logic, and keep my credibility?

Actor is very prone to biting off his nose to spite his face, whereas I am not.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Well, it is a pack of lies.

If you have not read it then how do you know? Did a bunch of creationist draw lots to see who would read it and you did not get the short straw?

Originally Posted by boxcar

But that is not the same thing as saying that "Origin of the Species" proves nothing. I, for one, would never say something that stupid because let's say one day I actually read it and discover statements therein that violate one or more Laws of Logic. How would I be able to appeal to those statements to prove they do violate logic, and keep my credibility?

So if I changed my view from "scripture proves nothing" to "scripture is a pack of lies" you would no longer consider my argument to be contradictory?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yup.

Where?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Calif. Court Rules Christian Baker Cannot Be Forced to Make Cake for Same-Sex Wedding

https://www.christianpost.com/news/c...rce=newsletter

I agree with the court on this one.

However, this was a decision by one judge. A pending SCOTUS case could overturn it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

You see, skeptics...there is a First Amendment to the Constitution which guarantees freedom of religion -- even in the Land of the Sodom and Gomorrah.

FTFY!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

what to tell a grieving parent over the loss of a child.

“The impermanence of this floating world
I feel over and over
It is hardest to be the one left behind.”
Otagaki Rengetsu (1791-1875)

We can find consolation on the death of a loved one or child in many religious texts. Also on the cosmic scale presented in modern relativistic and quantum levels. Seeing oneself as part of a much larger image is the key. Whether there is or is not a "reason" in anthropomorphic terms is not that important from a Zen perspective. Nor is it applicable.

The utter absurdity of ascribing the western god with the motivations of a slumlord deciding to revoke a child's apartment lease, is beyond contempt.

Samuel 15:3

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Over ten years ago boxcar told me that god was a "landlord"to explain killing infants even herd animals.

Duh!

[hcap]

Furthermore in Zen one should consider.....

Tathata, which means "suchness" or "thusness," is a word sometimes used primarily in Mahayana Buddhism to mean "reality," or the way things really are. It's understood that the true nature of reality is ineffable, beyond description and conceptualization. "Suchness," then, is deliberately vague to keep us from conceptualizing it.

...Zen teacher Taigen Dan Leighton writes that "it" (Tathata),is "a totally inclusive experience, incorporating everything." "It" is the totality of being, yet as individuals, we cannot personally claim to encompass all of it.

"This depicts the relationship of the limited 'I', including its egoistic self-clinging, to the all-encompassing universal nature, of which any 'I' is simply a particular partial expression"
..........................................


Understanding birth and death is part of experiencing Tathata. Trying to conjure up anthropomorphic conceptualizations giving us limited human ideas is not Zen.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by hcap

Samuel 15:3

Over ten years ago boxcar told me that god was a "landlord" to explain killing infants even herd animals.

Duh!

Genocidal! Infanticidal!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Actor

Genocidal! Infanticidal!

There is a metaphorical interpretation that bypasses the absurd literal foolishness. But it requires understanding the inner psychological meaning as does most of the world's scriptures.

Got to run to a doctors appointment. Later.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

If you have not read it then how do you know? Did a bunch of creationist draw lots to see who would read it and you did not get the short straw? So if I changed my view from "scripture proves nothing" to "scripture is a pack of lies" you would no longer consider my argument to be contradictory?

How I know is that atheistic materialism is a self-defeating philosophy; THEREFORE, the "science" derived from this philosophy must be a lie.
Elementary logic, Dr. Watson.

Why do you want to change your story now? So that you can extricate yourself from a very longstanding contradiction? Hey...if it makes YOU feel good, do whatever you want. I certainly have your number, even if no one else does; and my opinion of you will not change even if you change your mantra.
Are we clear?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Furthermore in Zen one should consider.....

Tathata, which means "suchness" or "thusness," is a word sometimes used primarily in Mahayana Buddhism to mean "reality," or the way things really are. It's understood that the true nature of reality is ineffable, beyond description and conceptualization. "Suchness," then, is deliberately vague to keep us from conceptualizing it.

...Zen teacher Taigen Dan Leighton writes that "it" (Tathata),is "a totally inclusive experience, incorporating everything." "It" is the totality of being, yet as individuals, we cannot personally claim to encompass all of it.

"This depicts the relationship of the limited 'I', including its egoistic self-clinging, to the all-encompassing universal nature, of which any 'I' is simply a particular partial expression"
..........................................


Understanding birth and death is part of experiencing Tathata. Trying to conjure up anthropomorphic conceptualizations giving us limited human ideas is not Zen.

If "ineffable" then why do you continue to speak about a thing which is incapable of being expressed by words? Perhaps you should just zip the lip, put your hands over your mouth and keep it shut? After your many empty words about "true reality", you do not knowby now how insignificant you are compared to that reality? Shouldn't you follow Job's lead:

Job 40:4-5
4 "Behold, I am insignificant; what can I reply to [True Reality]?
I lay my hand on my mouth.
5 "Once I have spoken, and I will not answer;
Even twice, and I will add no more."?
NASB

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

We can find consolation on the death of a loved one or child in many religious texts. Also on the cosmic scale presented in modern relativistic and quantum levels. Seeing oneself as part of a much larger image is the key. Whether there is or is not a "reason" in anthropomorphic terms is not that important from a Zen perspective. Nor is it applicable.

The utter absurdity of ascribing the western god with the motivations of a slumlord deciding to revoke a child's apartment lease, is beyond contempt.

Samuel 15:3
Over ten years ago boxcar told me that god was a "landlord"to explain killing infants even herd animals.

Duh!

You missed the point years ago and still do! God is not a "slumlord" which is precisely why he used the ancient Israelites to rid the land of all its vileness and pollution and corruption so that the Israelites would be given a Land of Milk and Honey in which to live. Slumlords don't clean up their property but God did which proves he's not a slumlord.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I agree with the court on this one.

However, this was a decision by one judge. A pending SCOTUS case could overturn it.
FTFY!

You couldn't fix anything if your life depended on it.

The decision by "one" judge proves that there's at least one judge in this land that has some common sense and true knowledge of the Constitution.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

How I know is that atheistic materialism is a self-defeating philosophy ...

Prove it. You've said that over and over but have offered no evidence or argument.

By the way, atheism does not fit the M-W definitions of philosophy.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... THEREFORE, the "science" derived from this philosophy must be a lie.

Evolution does not derive from atheism. It derives from "evidence". There are almost 2 billion Christians in the world who accept evolution. There are nowhere near that many atheists, although atheists do outnumber all non-Abrahamic religions (according to PEW research).

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why do you want to change your story now?

I did not say I wanted to change my "story" (your word). I simply asked a question. There are two possible answers: "yes" or "no".