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03-22-2017, 05:39 PM
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#586
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
What is it about this rendition that makes it really different...? There is a strange foreboding, almost angry tone to it...any ideas on the meaning of the poem, Thaskalos...? And what's up with it's appeal to a new generation...there's an odd emotional level to it that I am interested in learning more about...any clues...
https://youtu.be/u9Dg-g7t2l4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--DbgPXwLlM |
Disturbed Album cover. Self Explanatory.
Just flip it over. The Hexagram is not the star of David, it is for Wicca and witch craft.
The downside pentagram represent Baphomet. The crescent is the goddess Diana and not for Islam.
It is slight up, the cross, if you flip it, you will get a downside crucifix. This is the partition of you and the religion of Christianity.
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03-22-2017, 05:59 PM
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#587
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
The meaning of Life is Life....Love is a by-product of Life...not its end...
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Just like the meaning of Death is Death?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-22-2017, 06:17 PM
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#588
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Just like the meaning of Death is Death?
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This is necessarily correct...stare at it long enough and you become what it is...
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 03-22-2017 at 06:19 PM.
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03-22-2017, 08:16 PM
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#589
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
But since your god is the universe -- that is to say, he's in everything -- then this means that he has potentiality to change, as all material things do. Therefore, there is no real way in pantheism to know with certainty that your god is love; for your god is not immutable.
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I am talking about the essence of God, not his creations. God's essence does not change. His creations do change but retain his essence as we do as we age. You need to first perceive God in yourself, as Jesus said, before you can perceive God in the universe.
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03-22-2017, 08:21 PM
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#590
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
The meaning of Life is Life....Love is a by-product of Life...not its end...
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The source and meaning of this life comes from Love, not he other way around as you state, because God is love. Love is the only motivator for creation and existence.
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03-22-2017, 09:33 PM
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#591
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
The source and meaning of this life comes from Love, not he other way around as you state, because God is love. Love is the only motivator for creation and existence.
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There is more to Life than Love...
Though...
Love, the rarest of things...
We do discover, and yet;
Cannot always retain in our grasp...
Are we sometimes doomed,
To breathe the Days without it...?
Alas, by some trick of Nature,
or worse still, some fault our own,
Love keeps us at bay...
And wander from soul to soul...searching...
And settle for Love's second, or third best...
To fence Life's sullen emptiness...
From a terror, quiet...of being alone.
Thus, may we ever try,
to live with Love,
And always keep, sweet Love, once found...
Vigors
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 03-22-2017 at 09:38 PM.
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03-22-2017, 09:34 PM
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#592
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
I am talking about the essence of God, not his creations. God's essence does not change. His creations do change but retain his essence as we do as we age. You need to first perceive God in yourself, as Jesus said, before you can perceive God in the universe.
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Exactly! And since God's essence is manifested in the universe, according to pantheism, then God is one with the universe. All reality is identical with Divinity. There is no distinction between between God's essence and his created universe. God IS the universe!. But matter is constantly changing because all matter inherently has potentiality to change; therefore, God changes with the matter with which He is one. Whatever causes act upon potentiality in matter for it to change its Form (essence, nature) also act upon God's essence. The only way God cannot be affected by Change is if He is distinct from his creation -- if he transcends his creation -- which of course pantheism denies. The central tenet to pantheism is "The universe and God are one in essence." This being the case, this pantheistic God is not and cannot be immutable. And since not immutable, there is no way anyone can say with certainty into what God has changed, is changing and will change. He might have been a God of love, but there is no way to say that he is now.
Because of the above facts, there are two huge problems with pantheism: It violates the Law of Identity which says that an entity cannot act contrary to its essence. The universe cannot be in constant change, which we observe all around us, while the divinity which is identical to the universe remains immutable. An entity can only act in a manner consistent with its nature or essence. And, of course, pantheism obviously violates the Law of Noncontradiction, as well.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-22-2017, 09:40 PM
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#593
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
There is more to Life than Love...
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Everyone's task here on Earth, is to first discover love within and then to always come from that place in our actions and with people. This is the supreme accomplishment one can do as a human being and what we are all aspiring to do consciously or unconsciously.
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03-22-2017, 09:51 PM
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#594
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
Everyone's task here on Earth, is to first discover love within and then to always come from that place in our actions and with people. This is the supreme accomplishment one can do as a human being and what we are all aspiring to do consciously or unconsciously.
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I agree, and as a Romantic, Love is my Forte...Would the world be more like us...I spy more than a few who care less about love than their worn out shoes...We are in the minority, Light...so I guess you, and I and Boxcar must float Love's boat here alone, unless we can convince Actor to climb aboard the Loveboat...
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03-22-2017, 09:54 PM
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#595
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Exactly! And since God's essence is manifested in the universe, according to pantheism, then God is one with the universe. All reality is identical with Divinity. There is no distinction between between God's essence and his created universe. God IS the universe!. But matter is constantly changing because all matter inherently has potentiality to change; therefore, God changes with the matter with which He is one. Whatever causes act upon potentiality in matter for it to change its Form (essence, nature) also act upon God's essence. The only way God cannot be affected by Change is if He is distinct from his creation -- if he transcends his creation -- which of course pantheism denies. The central tenet to pantheism is "The universe and God are one in essence." This being the case, this pantheistic God is not and cannot be immutable. And since not immutable, there is no way anyone can say with certainty into what God has changed, is changing and will change. He might have been a God of love, but there is no way to say that he is now.
Because of the above facts, there are two huge problems with pantheism: It violates the Law of Identity which says that an entity cannot act contrary to its essence. The universe cannot be in constant change, which we observe all around us, while the divinity which is identical to the universe remains immutable. An entity can only act in a manner consistent with its nature or essence. And, of course, pantheism obviously violates the Law of Noncontradiction, as well.
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You may be correct about Pantheism. I don't know because I am not really a student of it to defend it. I am not a Pantheist, although some of what I say is believed by Pantheists as well.
But God of love always stays God of love otherwise it would not have been God of Love in the first place. It does not change as you mentioned. All matter is impermanent and although God may reside in that impermanence, he/it is not affected by its change.
The God in me feels the same as it did 60 years ago although I have changed alot.
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03-22-2017, 10:10 PM
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#596
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
I agree, and as a Romantic, Love is my Forte...Would the world be more like us...I spy more than a few who care less about love than their worn out shoes...We are in the minority, Light...so I guess you, and I and Boxcar must float Love's boat here alone, unless we can convince Actor to climb aboard the Loveboat...
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Yes, but I still think of your response when I said one must go within and you said its boring. That leads me to believe your love is in your head and not really from your heart. There is a huge difference between the two. One is fickle and can easily turn to hatred as testified by the 50% divorce rate in America. The other is genuine as Jesus taught when he said "Love your enemies".
I never discovered the love generated by the heart until a few years ago so I am not admonishing you. It's definitely not an easy thing to find. But it is the first door one must pass into yet it cannot be seen. It is only when I entered this door that I can truly say I am now on the right path and feel like I finally learned something from this life. BTW, this love is far more than the "good" feeling". There is far more wisdom and learning that comes from this love than that of the mind. And it is through this love that I feel a connection to God. Non religious.
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03-22-2017, 10:16 PM
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#597
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio
Posts: 5,289
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Fight with death. God as party animal. What is real?
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03-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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#598
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,761
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Trinitarianism and Immanentism shall kiss.
Metaphysics and modernism greet each other.
Paul and Pelagius exchange high fives.
Boxcar, Light has no idea what you are describing.
__________________
"I like to come here (Saratoga) every year to visit my money." ---Joe E. Lewis
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03-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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#599
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
Yes, but I still think of your response when I said one must go within and you said its boring. That leads me to believe your love is in your head and not really from your heart. There is a huge difference between the two. One is fickle and can easily turn to hatred as testified by the 50% divorce rate in America. The other is genuine as Jesus taught when he said "Love your enemies".
I never discovered the love generated by the heart until a few years ago so I am not admonishing you. It's definitely not an easy thing to find. But it is the first door one must pass into yet it cannot be seen. It is only when I entered this door that I can truly say I am now on the right path and feel like I finally learned something from this life. BTW, this love is far more than the "good" feeling". There is far more wisdom and learning that comes from this love than that of the mind. And it is through this love that I feel a connection to God. Non religious.
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There are many types of love, Light, and some find it uncomfortable discussing love...but I do not...love of brother, love of God, love of Man, passion, erotic, hetero and homo erotic, love for animals, love for the earth, tough love, etc, etc,....I think people shy away from talking about love because it is such a fluffy topic....
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03-22-2017, 10:21 PM
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#600
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio
Posts: 5,289
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Everyone's spiritual quest is their own. I hope you have one. I know 3 things about myself. I can be moral without a god. I can be optimistic without a heaven. I am never going to cease looking for both.
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