BRIS CLASS RATINGS

[Blackgold]

I am interested in anyone's opinion or research on BRIS Class Ratings.

I think it should be noted that in their hall of fame- www.brisnet.com/halloffame- that the current inductee, Ronnie Cooper, says he relys mostly on the Brisnet Class Ratings to crunch numbers.

If you look at his profile he hit a large number of Pick 6's over the last 12 months including $760K at SA in early Jan. of this year.

I often refer to the class ratings in routes and especially turf and NW1x, but not so much in sprints or even mdn or mdncl.

He says he downloads mainly a data file from BRIS, then crunches his own numbers with no intuitive handicapping at all.

Any ideas. . .is he use the current class rating, the avg. class last 3?

[Big Bill]

Blackgold,

I too was interested in how others used the BRIS class/race ratings and I started a thread hoping to get some responses. But no one posted to the thread. Here was my initial post:

Has anyone found a useful way to incorporate BRIS's race ratings and class ratings into their handicapping?

I've read BRIS's explanation of the ratings, how to use them, etc., as offered on their web site, but I have yet to find a way to employ them in my handicapping.

They (BRIS) do not state what number or numbers they apply their proprietary computer algorithms to in the development of the ratings. If they are applied to the BRIS speed pars as a base, they would be as useless as the pars, IMHO.

Big Bill

[John]

I have never seen a Bris class rating in their Comma-Delimited files. only in the ulitra PP. I have software that will except them.If they ever include them.

[Hosshead]

Blackgold- The link you gave (bris hall of fame) is not available.

Do they have a monthly fee for class ratings for all tracks? Or is it per track?

[BillW]

The Bris/TSN class ratings come in the Multicap/Procap files and the more expensive ones also.

I loosely use them (or the power rating) as eliminators i.e. I don't have any magic formula, but a top horse or two can be pretty much expected to be short.

Bill

[Blackgold]

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/handi_hall.cgi

[Amazin]

MY guess is this supercapper is putting the most weight in determining the winner in his class ratings like most people do with the Beyers,except he has a unique modification to it.

Since Bris does not divulge the ingredients in their class rating recipie
you could make your own class ratings which would be more accurate and therefore more effective than the Bris ones. The same goes for T.V's., or pace ratings....if you have the time.

You could make your class ratings based on 2 different options or combine them:

A) Based on the percentage of horses entered in a race coming out of races above or below today's class level.This includes horses in restricted conditions(NW2L,NW1x,state bred,etc) into open company or vice- versa,and of course horses moving up or down the claiming ranks. Alot of work here.

B) Since class=time (in most cases),you could take the average times of the contenders in a race and get a numerical value,that would then depict the strength of the class.The times used for the contenders would be their expected times coming into todays race(not today's race).This is a much easier method since most of us have allready calculated the times for the contenders before the race either manually or by computer.So the hard work is allready done.All you have left to do is add and divide.

That being said,in today's age it is hard to find the time just to take a crap,let alone making track variants and class ratings. It's alot more convenient and time saving to have them in computer form and trade the less inaccurate numbers for the time savings.Or better yet,modify them like supercapper.

I have gone to the less accurate,computerized,time savings,modification way for this major reason: There are many other factors which affect class ratings or TV's or pace,making all your hard work susceptable to inaccuracies, unpredicability and frustration. Factors such as form cycles,bad trips,new trainer or jock,distance changes,an uncontested pace,off tracks,surface changes,bounces, health questions,unknown improvements in other horses in the field etc. etc.

[mhrussell]

FYI.. to all

Last week I sent an email to the BRIS tech powers that be and asked them to include the Class and Race Ratings in their DRF comma delimited data files.
The reply was "your suggestion will be passed along and considered"

I took that to be a "no", or at least not anytime soon. I too have wondered how best to use this information; often the Class Ratings have pointed to otherwise (numbers, pace whatever) non-contenders. I use their Premium PPs most of the time but on special race days I'll buy the Ultimates.

I was thinking of a ratio of the Class Rating to the Race Rating of each horse multiplied by the average Race Rating of all the horses in a given race, and then using that factor somehow to adjust your normal handicapping numbers (PBS and PPF ratings for me, since I am a "HM magician" based handicapper..). But yes, any others out there who have thought of a good way to incorporate the Class and Race Ratings from BRIS?

[JackS]

My suggestion would be to use the lifetime earnings of older horses as a measurment. The 60-20-10-5% of purse value should yield a workable number as an estimation of class. The main caution might be the added purses races carded for statebreds which can inflate the value of a horse racing outside these conditions or is now running out of his home state. Also a big win at an elevated price such as a HCp/Stks at large odds which might indicate the horse was really inelgible to win. Nothings perfect, but whatever method you decide to use has to be usable within handicapping time constraints, at least for me anyway.

[Larry Hamilton]

Ask your question, I have a db with over 800,000 class and race ratings in it...

on or off line, your call larry@hambowl.net

the field num for class are 836 to 845 and race rating 826-835

[Blackgold]

Larry, the guy says he does no intuitive handicapping, just uses BRIS class ratings to construct his P6 tickets.

So I'm trying to imagine what his model is to puch the ticket.

For instance, if the top class rating is 2pt.s above others, then it gets a certain weight on the ticket. . . or if the top 4 horses are all within .5 of each other in class rating then they are all on the ticket.

From what I got from the article, the guy has a high level understanding of crunching numbers and simply downloads a BRIS file and uses the class ratings to construct a P6 ticket, of course some judgement or something must be included for a race with lots of first time starters.

I'm just trying to picture what the variables or weighting of the ratings are and how that can be used to construct tickets.

Any ideas?

[TravisVOX]

Each situation is different, it's really tough to take the entire sack of marbles on a class rating. Personally, I never used them unless something seem inordinarily high...rare, almost never. There's no such thing as that whole incompassing figure...ya gotta figure it all into the equation (pace, trips, breeding, connections etc.) Brisnet numbers are awfully close I think, in that, not much difference in figures as opposed to Beyer. Anyone else notice this?

[Amazin]

Blackgold

I am currently experimenting with a bris method that works about as good as this guy you mentioned. I extract 4 factors from bris,one of which is the prime power. Top rated horses become the contenders. No handicapping.

Applying this to last Sunday's Aqueduct card,I would have been the only person to hit the Pk6. But it would have cost me:
1x3x4x5x5x6. Ridiculous investment,but excellent picking of contenders for a no brain method. So now I'm working on refinement.

I think this guy must get the same excellent contender selection I'm getting,but using the Bris Class ratings. I think he must get alot of contenders per race like I do. But I dont think his advantage is in the Class ratings. I think It's in his refinements of the contenders from the class ratings.

[Larry Hamilton]

if you can sort thru the poor post, you will see why he loves class numbers. I picked this day at Aqueduct because it came up randomlyL

Track	Date	RaceNum	Entry	PgmNum	HorseName	1BkClass	1BkRaceRate	OfficialFInish	win$2
AQU	20030309	1		2	K. O.'S CRYPTO	112.1	111.7	4	0
AQU	20030309	1	A	1	ALL GEARED UP	109.3	111.7	7	0
AQU	20030309	1		4	TICKLE ME RED	109.4	111.7	6	0
AQU	20030309	1		5	MILLENNIUM TWO	108.6	111.7	8	0
AQU	20030309	1		6	SPECIAL TERMS	115.1	111.7	2	0
AQU	20030309	1	A	1A	FACT NOT FICTION	111.5	111.7	5	0
AQU	20030309	1		7	DOUBLE BLUE	112.3	111.7	3	0
AQU	20030309	1		8	GOOD MAN SAM	115.2	111.7	1	20.8
AQU	20030309	2		2	ZOHRA'S WEB	114	108.9	1	5.5
AQU	20030309	2		3	OBSTINATE	109.3	108.9	3	0
AQU	20030309	2		4	LUCKY FAB	107.4	108.9	4	0
AQU	20030309	2	A	1	ROSE PUNCH	107.3	108.9	5	0
AQU	20030309	2		5	HISTORIC DISTRICT	106	108.9	6	0
AQU	20030309	2		6	WINTER HARBOR	109.5	108.9	2	0
AQU	20030309	3		2	A FUNNY STORY	102.7	105.4	8	0
AQU	20030309	3		5	GENEVA CROSS	107.9	105.4	2	0
AQU	20030309	3		6	NO CHANCE TO SKI	106.3	105.4	4	0
AQU	20030309	3		7	SUAVE ACT	108.6	105.4	1	4.3
AQU	20030309	3		8	TRICK A TOGA	105.5	105.4	5	0
AQU	20030309	3		9	IRIE SENSATION	102.7	105.4	7	0
AQU	20030309	3		11	BIG SWINGER	103.1	105.4	6	0
AQU	20030309	3		12	STAND FOR SPEED	106.3	105.4	3	0
AQU	20030309	4		1	GOLCONDA	109.8	105.7	1	4
AQU	20030309	4		2	HARBOR HAVEN	106.5	105.7	4	0
AQU	20030309	4		3	SOLDIER IN ACTION	107	105.7	3	0
AQU	20030309	4		4	OH LUCKY ME			5	0
AQU	20030309	4		6	RARE FUSE	107.5	105.7	2	0
AQU	20030309	4		7	ARMY CAT	100.6	105.7	6	0
AQU	20030309	5		2	PARSIPPANY	111.9	107.7	1	5.8
AQU	20030309	5		3	JO DINAH	106.5	107.7	7	0
AQU	20030309	5		4	KERATOID'S CHUBBS	108.5	107.7	5	0
AQU	20030309	5		5	BOOK SMART	103.5	107.7	8	0
AQU	20030309	5		7	HEAVENLY ROSE	109.2	107.7	3	0
AQU	20030309	5		8	SWEEP N THE NIGHT	108.2	107.7	6	0
AQU	20030309	5		9	NICE LITTLE GIRL	108.7	107.7	4	0
AQU	20030309	5		10	ROBIN'S FLING	102.3	107.7	9	0
AQU	20030309	5		11	WHISPERED CALL	110.8	107.7	2	0
AQU	20030309	6		1	FREEI	108.6	109.7	4	0
AQU	20030309	6		2	PASTA DUE	113.3	109.7	1	11.8
AQU	20030309	6		3	OPEN AND SHUT	108.6	109.7	5	0
AQU	20030309	6		4	AWESOME POWERS	108	109.7	6	0
AQU	20030309	6		5	MYSTERY MAIDEN	112	109.7	2	0
AQU	20030309	6		6	CARIEL	107.4	109.7	7	0
AQU	20030309	6		7	HIGHEST OFFER	110	109.7	3	0
AQU	20030309	7		2	MY PAL AL	107.2	107.9	6	0
AQU	20030309	7	A	1	EDDIE WHITE SOX	110.5	107.9	2	0
AQU	20030309	7		3	SNOOPY BLUES	107.2	107.9	5	0
AQU	20030309	7		4	JELLY ROLL ROCK	108.7	107.9	4	0
AQU	20030309	7		5	JOVIAL FORECAST	104.1	107.9	7	0
AQU	20030309	7		6	AUSTIN'S AWESOME	110.2	107.9	3	0
AQU	20030309	7		7	JUST PLAIN JOE	113.1	107.9	1	5.2
AQU	20030309	7		8	WILD VESSEL	102.1	107.9	8	0
AQU	20030309	8		1	PACKIN GLACKEN	111.8	110.5	3	0
AQU	20030309	8		2	ONE MOMENTO	106.6	110.5	7	0
AQU	20030309	8		3	THE STANDARD			4	0
AQU	20030309	8		4	PATRIOTIC LEGEND	109	110.5	5	0
AQU	20030309	8		5	IOSKEHA	108.9	110.5	6	0
AQU	20030309	8		6	NAPOLEON SOLO	115	110.5	1	10
AQU	20030309	8		7	SHOALIHS TALE	112.2	110.5	2	0
AQU	20030309	9		1	BONEFIDE REASON	117.4	116.7	4	0
AQU	20030309	9		2	A. P. ANDIE	116.4	116.7	6	0
AQU	20030309	9		3	VESTA	118.6	116.7	2	0
AQU	20030309	9		4	SASKYA	119.1	116.7	1	41.2
AQU	20030309	9		6	DREXEL MONORAIL	117.7	116.7	3	0
AQU	20030309	9		8	HONGKONG CHARLEY	117.1	116.7	5	0
AQU	20030309	9		9	GOLDEN MADE	111	116.7	7	0
AQU	20030309	10		3	EXPENSIVE ROAD	109.8	106.7	4	0
AQU	20030309	10		4	RUN TO GLORY	110.3	106.7	2	0
AQU	20030309	10	A	1A	WIDE EYED WARRIOR	103.1	106.7	8	0
AQU	20030309	10		5	CAPE POGUE	111.1	106.7	1	4.2
AQU	20030309	10		6	FOR CASH ONLY	100.6	106.7	10	0
AQU	20030309	10		8	LEHIGH GRAD	110.1	106.7	3	0
AQU	20030309	10	B	2	BLAISE PASCALE	103.5	106.7	7	0
AQU	20030309	10		9	PRINCE PETER B B	101.7	106.8	9	0
AQU	20030309	10		10	SEA TRADE	109.1	106.7	5	0
AQU	20030309	10		11	KINGS TEMPER	107.5	106.7	6	0

[Larry Hamilton]

race 1, the 8 horse was highest rated class, it won paying 20 bucks..several more won including the next 4 and the last...

anyone want to buy a class number? hehehe