Formely Matt Carothers thread, but hijacked by Vic

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

And I answered you that no posts were deleted.

Why are trolling me? I've tried to be a productive respectful member of the forum since my return.

If you want to re-ban me. Go ahead. If not then please stop busting my balls over petty bull-shit.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

If it's that important to you track them yourself. Problem solved.

My point, which you did not seem to comprehend, is that a handicappers value is not just based on how many top winners he picks. In this day and age of Pick 4 and Pick 5's, nobody gives a crap about a handicappers ROI with his top picks anymore.

My point, which you don't seem to comprehend, is that a cappers opinions, is only as valuable as his talents as a capper. Since the information provided is a check mark(top pick) and pick 4's picks, then the only way for anyone to measure how good a capper they are is to look at the roi on each. It is the only unbiased measure. Any blowhard can whistle dixie about how they are Gods gift to the handicapping world, and use any kind of lingo they want, but their expertise can only be gauged one way. How do their picks perform? There is no getting around it. You cannot tell me capper b is a great handicapper if his top pick is losing 30% a year. Just not possible.

If nobody cares then nobody will look at their records and there is nothing to worry about it. So why not give the public access to their record. The answer is obvious. In most instances their records suck and their expert status will be put in serious doubt. Otherwise TVG and everyone else would have been doing this for years and touting how great, capper x and capper y and capper z are. Because what can be better for handle then spotlighting that capper y has generated a +25% pick 4 roi over his lifetime, or Capper Z has a +20% roi on his top pick over the last year? I guess there just aint too many capper y's and capper z's out there.

I get it, this sport is brutally tough But I do think if you are going to claim someone is an '"expert", it is nice to actually provide some kind of evidence that they are indeed experts. Of course if there is no evidence to provide you stick with the status qo and fool whoever you can.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

Matt actually ran his own show on TVG about three years ago.

I think the perfect co-host would be Simon who gives insight into breeding.
and/or Dave Weaver who provides picks based on the sheets.

58 flat. It was a pretty decent show, though it was early in the day and all NY and FLA racing.

He's pretty consistent in that he does tout value.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

He does have great hair.

Ha!! I remember one day a couple years ago when he was saying how lucky his teenage daughter is that she has a good looking dad who's hip and knows how to dance.

I kid you not. He went there..........on national TV.

Maybe he was sauced????

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

Ha!! I remember one day a couple years ago when he was saying how lucky his teenage daughter is that she has a good looking dad who's hip and knows how to dance.

I kid you not. He went there..........on national TV.

Maybe he was sauced????

Matt is known to say silly stuff looking for a laugh. I have been watching TVG
since day one and at NO time did I ever think he was "sauced"...Now I'd bet a few bucks if you looked in the bottom drawer of his desk you might find a couple of empty cans of this stuff:

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

My point, which you don't seem to comprehend, is that a cappers opinions, is only as valuable as his talents as a capper. Since the information provided is a check mark(top pick) and pick 4's picks, then the only way for anyone to measure how good a capper they are is to look at the roi on each. It is the only unbiased measure. Any blowhard can whistle dixie about how they are Gods gift to the handicapping world, and use any kind of lingo they want, but their expertise can only be gauged one way. How do their picks perform? There is no getting around it. You cannot tell me capper b is a great handicapper if his top pick is losing 30% a year. Just not possible.

If nobody cares then nobody will look at their records and there is nothing to worry about it. So why not give the public access to their record. The answer is obvious. In most instances their records suck and their expert status will be put in serious doubt. Otherwise TVG and everyone else would have been doing this for years and touting how great, capper x and capper y and capper z are. Because what can be better for handle then spotlighting that capper y has generated a +25% pick 4 roi over his lifetime, or Capper Z has a +20% roi on his top pick over the last year? I guess there just aint too many capper y's and capper z's out there.

I get it, this sport is brutally tough But I do think if you are going to claim someone is an '"expert", it is nice to actually provide some kind of evidence that they are indeed experts. Of course if there is no evidence to provide you stick with the status qo and fool whoever you can.

TVG isn't in the "customer service" business. Their only concern is to get the unsophisticated fan into the betting pools in any way that they can...and, if they do what you suggest, that will undermine their efforts to get as many people as possible to bet...because most of their hosts will be revealed as the total incompetents that they are.

Have you ever asked yourself why they pitch as many horizontal bets as they do? IMO...it's because you can look pretty dumb pretty quickly when you bet strictly to win...whereas the horizontals keep you in the action a lot longer...thus keeping the suspense going until the latter stages of the bet. You spread by using 3 horses in the first race...you "buy" the second race...and you find yourself half-way through the pick-4, without offering a single handicapping opinion...or allowing anyone to find out how clueless of a handicapper you are. When you bet WIN...you lose race after race...and people write you off as an "expert" in short order.

If TVG published their hosts ROI...then their telecast would be relegated to the comedy channel.

[ultracapper]

I was just funnin' about the sauced. I'm sure he wasn't. But he had me and my brother-in-law rolling on the floor, because he seemed pretty serious about it all.

Over all I like the guy from where I stand. We all get whacked now and then. He got whack that day. It was uncomfortable, but damn funny.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

My point, which you don't seem to comprehend, is that a cappers opinions, is only as valuable as his talents as a capper. Since the information provided is a check mark(top pick) and pick 4's picks, then the only way for anyone to measure how good a capper they are is to look at the roi on each. It is the only unbiased measure. Any blowhard can whistle dixie about how they are Gods gift to the handicapping world, and use any kind of lingo they want, but their expertise can only be gauged one way. How do their picks perform? There is no getting around it. You cannot tell me capper b is a great handicapper if his top pick is losing 30% a year. Just not possible.

If nobody cares then nobody will look at their records and there is nothing to worry about it. So why not give the public access to their record. The answer is obvious. In most instances their records suck and their expert status will be put in serious doubt. Otherwise TVG and everyone else would have been doing this for years and touting how great, capper x and capper y and capper z are. Because what can be better for handle then spotlighting that capper y has generated a +25% pick 4 roi over his lifetime, or Capper Z has a +20% roi on his top pick over the last year? I guess there just aint too many capper y's and capper z's out there.

I get it, this sport is brutally tough But I do think if you are going to claim someone is an '"expert", it is nice to actually provide some kind of evidence that they are indeed experts. Of course if there is no evidence to provide you stick with the status qo and fool whoever you can.

If your top pick is hitting at 30% you're most likely losing. I doubt I'm at 20%. But I'm picking the right kind of plays.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

I was just funnin' about the sauced. I'm sure he wasn't. But he had me and my brother-in-law rolling on the floor, because he seemed pretty serious about it all.

Over all I like the guy from where I stand. We all get whacked now and then. He got whack that day. It was uncomfortable, but damn funny.

I once did a shift with Tom Cassidy where I wasn't drunk but I was OUT OF IT big time.

My wife would always put two Altoids in my shirt pocket. I always tried to be respectful of my partner. Nothing worse than 4 hours of bad breath.

So I reached into my pocket during a break and popped them both into my mouth. We where coming back out of a break. I only had a few second so I quickly chewed and swallowed them both.

Wow. Something wasn't right. They tasted terrible. Could an Altoid go stale?

Turns out she doesn't know how it happened but instead of the mints she accidentally put two percocet's in my pocket. They actually look very similar.

About 20 minutes later I was just staring at the screen and smiling at Tom.

Oh. " look at the pretty horses "

[coachv30]

I think everyone here is stating the obvious, the experts on TVG are wrong more times than they are right. This goes for their checkmarks, pick 4's pick 5's, etc.....But I would venture to say that so are all of us.

I just think people are taking it to heart and getting rubbed the wrong way because these guys are being deemed as experts. However, I don't see why the network can't hold them to their expertise and keep a ROI on them like they do with the NFL panel and their weekly picks. Add some fun and competition to the broadcasts.

[coachv30]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I once did a shift with Tom Cassidy where I wasn't drunk but I was OUT OF IT big time.

My wife would always put two Altoids in my shirt pocket. I always tried to be respectful of my partner. Nothing worse than 4 hours of bad breath.

So I reached into my pocket during a break and popped them both into my mouth. We where coming back out of a break. I only had a few second so I quickly chewed and swallowed them both.

Wow. Something wasn't right. They tasted terrible. Could an Altoid go stale?

Turns out she doesn't know how it happened but instead of the mints she accidentally put two percocet's in my pocket. They actually look very similar.

About 20 minutes later I was just staring at the screen and smiling at Tom.

Oh. " look at the pretty horses "

Great story!!

[metro]

Originally Posted by coachv30

I don't see why the network can't hold them to their expertise and keep a ROI on them like they do with the NFL panel and their weekly picks. Add some fun and competition to the broadcasts.

That would probably mean more work than it would seem to entail.

I'm far from a TVG apologist as I've posted some of my thoughts about them either in this thread or in others. One thing I wouldn't hold them accountable for though is their ROI or any form of it.

Handicapping is all about variables and plenty of variables can occur from when one of their analysts submit their on-air picks and the races are actually run. Those that feel the need to moan about the ROI of TVG analysts I would suggest they post their picks along side those of the TVG ones and let everyone see the results. Would imagine they wouldn't differ much unless you are going up against a commentator like Mike Joyce and not someone more capable like a Simon Bray, or our fellow poster Vic Stauffer.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Why are trolling me? I've tried to be a productive respectful member of the forum since my return.

If you want to re-ban me. Go ahead. If not then please stop busting my balls over petty bull-shit.

Ok then.

Back to reality. My clown show comment:

a) had NOTHING to do with you
b) but you made it about YOU
c) typical

How's that for a troll?

IF YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION, YOU WOULD SEE MY CLOWN SHOW REPLY WAS TO thelittleguy, and HIS REPLY TO WAS SOMEONE ELSE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU

Thank me very much.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I get my TVG2 on Roku. Perhaps others know if there are other ways.

Verizon FIOS has TVG2



Always happy when Vic is on. :-)


when he got hired I did a happy dance.



Allan

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

I had a good time with Dave Weaver at the NHC, earlier in the year, gambling side by side at the TI, while talking horses and life in general......Great guy.

I didn't realize you played in the NHC this year. How did you do?