Tournaments

[metro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I have been playing heads-up tournaments at Horsetourneys.com...and I am having a ball. The tournament entry fees range from $22 to $1,500...so there is a place there for all kinds of bankrolls. It's the best new development in the game, IMO...and I wish I got into it sooner.

Best new still to be determined, if it eventually adds to the pari-mutuel pools then yes.

If a bettor uses his $1500 bankroll for a day to play only a heads up contest what does that do for race track(s) that provide the product that is being used for the tournament?

Contrast that to the churn that a bettor with a $1500 budget could create in a day's worth of wagering at the track, simulcast, or through other wagering avenues.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by metro

Best new still to be determined, if it eventually adds to the pari-mutuel pools then yes.

If a bettor uses his $1500 bankroll for a day to play only a heads up contest what does that do for race track(s) that provide the product that is being used for the tournament?

Contrast that to the churn that a bettor with a $1500 budget could create in a day's worth of wagering at the track, simulcast, or through other wagering avenues.

Apples and oranges, as the player who can afford to play $1500 heads up, does so because it "exists" at horsetourneys or some other on-line site. That player may be actively involved betting live on a much higher scale, probably with rebates....If there wasn't on-line tourneys of this nature, you can't assume he would then churn an extra $1500 in live play....It simply won't happen.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by metro

Best new still to be determined, if it eventually adds to the pari-mutuel pools then yes.

If a bettor uses his $1500 bankroll for a day to play only a heads up contest what does that do for race track(s) that provide the product that is being used for the tournament?

Contrast that to the churn that a bettor with a $1500 budget could create in a day's worth of wagering at the track, simulcast, or through other wagering avenues.

That is a track problem, I have done enough for them. I am tired of paying 27% takeouts.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by metro

Best new still to be determined, if it eventually adds to the pari-mutuel pools then yes.

If a bettor uses his $1500 bankroll for a day to play only a heads up contest what does that do for race track(s) that provide the product that is being used for the tournament?

Contrast that to the churn that a bettor with a $1500 budget could create in a day's worth of wagering at the track, simulcast, or through other wagering avenues.

I said that these tournaments are the "best new development in the game", not "for the game". There have been several ideas implemented for the benefit of the tracks...but the player's plight has been largely IGNORED. The player in today's game has seen the play largely taken away from him by the large rebated computer groups...and is in dire need of a new wagering option in which he could function without being assailed by those whale-betting after-effects that we so often see. HorseTourneys gives us that new wagering option...while the tracks don't.

If the tracks want to benefit substantially from this new idea, then they should endeavor to implement this idea THEMSELVES. Otherwise...they only deserve a tiny piece of the action...IMO.

[metro]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Apples and oranges, as the player who can afford to play $1500 heads up, does so because it "exists" at horsetourneys or some other on-line site. That player may be actively involved betting live on a much higher scale, probably with rebates....If there wasn't on-line tourneys of this nature, you can't assume he would then churn an extra $1500 in live play....It simply won't happen.

Nor can you assume that they would participate in both types of gaming.

I've read at least one person on the PA site state that they were getting more into tourney play as an alternative from pari-mutuel wagering.

[metro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I said that these tournaments are the "best new development in the game", not "for the game". There have been several ideas implemented for the benefit of the tracks...but the player's plight has been largely IGNORED. The player in today's game has seen the play largely taken away from him by the large rebated computer groups...and is in dire need of a new wagering option in which he could function without being assailed by those whale-betting after-effects that we so often see. HorseTourneys gives us that new wagering option...while the tracks don't.

If the tracks want to benefit substantially from this new idea, then they should endeavor to implement this idea THEMSELVES. Otherwise...they only deserve a tiny piece of the action...IMO.

Tracks have been putting on various types of tournaments for decades, they are just more prevalent now, especially the more lucrative live money ones for them.

Obviously they are never going to go full bore with what you desire because of the overhead.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by metro

Nor can you assume that they would participate in both types of gaming.

I've read at least one person on the PA site state that they were getting more into tourney play as an alternative from pari-mutuel wagering.

The horseplayer is entitled to do whatever suits his own financial interests...just as the tracks do. "Greed" shouldn't be the monopoly of the racing industry alone.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by metro

Tracks have been putting on various types of tournaments for decades, they are just more prevalent now, especially the more lucrative live money ones for them.

Obviously they are never going to go full bore with what you desire because of the overhead.

I have been going to racetracks for 35 years...and the only "tournaments" that I saw there were some "live" tournaments among the patrons...where first prize was somewhere in the neighborhood of $45. The other "marquee" tournaments are so poorly promoted that even the hardcore horseplayers know next-to-NOTHING about them. And you would compare this to bringing these tourneys to a horseplayer's HOME...on a daily BASIS?

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by metro

Nor can you assume that they would participate in both types of gaming.

I've read at least one person on the PA site state that they were getting more into tourney play as an alternative from pari-mutuel wagering.

It's my understanding that since the Stronach/Derby Wars lawsuit both cash tournament sites are paying fees to tracks. So the tracks are benefiting from them. That doesn't address your question on churn, but it should also be noted that for those of us in states where ADW betting is not allowed, the tournaments we play provide revenue to the tracks that they wouldn't have received otherwise.

[metro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I have been going to racetracks for 35 years...and the only "tournaments" that I saw there were some "live" tournaments among the patrons...where first prize was somewhere in the neighborhood of $45. The other "marquee" tournaments are so poorly promoted that even the hardcore horseplayers know next-to-NOTHING about them. And you would compare this to bringing these tourneys to a horseplayer's HOME...on a daily BASIS?

I'm in Kentucky and have played in different forms of tourneys at Churchill and Keeneland for close to 30 years. Churchill used to do them on Wednesdays and Sundays iirc, included a buffet lunch, DRF and access to box level. The prize pool for 1st place was at least $500 guaranteed (depended on the # of entries). Cost was $20 ($2 Win/Place format) if you had were a TSC member. They stopped doing it, not because of cost, but because people just stopped playing in them.

Keeneland still does theirs, Wednesday's only and no buffet, just the DRF but the cost is $10 (same w/p format). Like most other top tier tracks that have gotten more into the live money ones with larger entry fees recently.

NYRA had a daily "showdown" contest that recently ended with the conclusion of the Belmont meet. NO COST with grand prize a drawn entry into some Saratoga live money contest the first weekend in August. Daily winners got 50K points ($50 equivalent) into their NYRABets account. This included people who tied for 1st.....which I was fortunate to do one day. Not sure if Saratoga will be doing the same.

These are just ones off the top of my head, they are out there, sorry they all can't be at your front door.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I am so impressed by your single-minded dedication to our match...that I will wholeheartedly offer you a REMATCH, should you desire one.

BREAKING NEWS: FRANCE REQUESTS REMATCH WITH CROATIA

Uh....................No?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by metro

I'm in Kentucky and have played in different forms of tourneys at Churchill and Keeneland for close to 30 years. Churchill used to do them on Wednesdays and Sundays iirc, included a buffet lunch, DRF and access to box level. The prize pool for 1st place was at least $500 guaranteed (depended on the # of entries). Cost was $20 ($2 Win/Place format) if you had were a TSC member. They stopped doing it, not because of cost, but because people just stopped playing in them.

Keeneland still does theirs, Wednesday's only and no buffet, just the DRF but the cost is $10 (same w/p format). Like most other top tier tracks that have gotten more into the live money ones with larger entry fees recently.

NYRA had a daily "showdown" contest that recently ended with the conclusion of the Belmont meet. NO COST with grand prize a drawn entry into some Saratoga live money contest the first weekend in August. Daily winners got 50K points ($50 equivalent) into their NYRABets account. This included people who tied for 1st.....which I was fortunate to do one day. Not sure if Saratoga will be doing the same.

These are just ones off the top of my head, they are out there, sorry they all can't be at your front door.

Oh...okay. Then I should sell my house and move to Kentucky or New York if I want to play these regular tournaments. Or...I could bet with HorseTourneys from home. I'll think about it...and see which option is better for me.

[metro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Oh...okay. Then I should sell my house and move to Kentucky or New York if I want to play these regular tournaments. Or...I could bet with HorseTourneys from home. I'll think about it...and see which option is better for me.

Well aren't you the party animal!

[metro]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

It's my understanding that since the Stronach/Derby Wars lawsuit both cash tournament sites are paying fees to tracks. So the tracks are benefiting from them. That doesn't address your question on churn, but it should also be noted that for those of us in states where ADW betting is not allowed, the tournaments we play provide revenue to the tracks that they wouldn't have received otherwise.

Appreciate the info, would be interesting to see what the "take " is for the tracks from these on-line tournament type sites.

[JeremyJet]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

What are your questions?

I created this thread last year but it was more general discussion.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ght=tournament

You originally posted this on 10/1/2017. You've come a long way in a short period of time.

Quick question about DRF Bets. How come they don't offer the Kentucky tracks when Xpressbet does and Xpressbet runs DRF Bets?