if you always wanted to go to the races in California...

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Exactly right. The devious genius of football betting is precisely that 1/2 or more of the male adult population thinks themselves experts on football who can accurately predict results even though in reality they don't know diddly.

And horse racing used to attract know it alls like that, but no longer does.

IMO one of the major challenges with the younger people is not enough action. 25 minutes between races doesn't jive with what they've become accustomed to. When I worked at Hawthorne I often wondered what if we could build a grandstand between Hawthorne and Sportsmans with windows and seats facing each way?

Perhaps run harness at one and TB's at the other. You'd never be more than a few minutes from a new root.

One of the things I love about betting sports as that for one unit you get to live and die on every play for 3 hours.

And to take that to the next level. What about playing every damn game and letting the NFL Red Zone wash over you for 7 1/2 hours without one freakin commercial.

Sick action heaven. But not for me. I KNOW football!!!

Riiiggght

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

You mean unlike the juicy edge we all enjoy with Craps, Blackjack, Slots and my favorite Roulette. Not to mention the especially easy sports betting.

Not one iota of interest for anyone that's 43 years old?

What a bunch of happy horseshit!!

Vic, I don’t know anybody under 50 who’s a horseplayer. Read the next few posts (which I see you have already) I think they backup my “happy horseshit”

Why any young person would choose horse racing today is beyond me. They can bet on a ton of other stuff with much less work (remember most of those bets have only 2 choices) and much less effort to hear a so called informed opine about what to bet (ESPN-FOX-CBS shows) and where to bet.

They can get an injury report in 1 minute online. They can get a ton of “accurate” stats as opposed to racing which can barely provide accurate timing at most tracks.

The occasional “the refs are crooked” or “The umps are blind” is baby shit compared to reading about cheating in horse racing.

Nope….why horse racing? Nope not gonna do it…..

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

IMO one of the major challenges with the younger people is not enough action. 25 minutes between races doesn't jive with what they've become accustomed to. When I worked at Hawthorne I often wondered what if we could build a grandstand between Hawthorne and Sportsmans with windows and seats facing each way?

Perhaps run harness at one and TB's at the other. You'd never be more than a few minutes from a new root.

One of the things I love about betting sports as that for one unit you get to live and die on every play for 3 hours.

And to take that to the next level. What about playing every damn game and letting the NFL Red Zone wash over you for 7 1/2 hours without one freakin commercial.

Sick action heaven. But not for me. I KNOW football!!!

Riiiggght

This argument was valid in the pre-simulcast days, but now that we have a hundred races a day at our betting disposal we can't say that "boredom" is the reason why the younger people are staying away from our favorite game.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Vic, I don’t know anybody under 50 who’s a horseplayer. Read the next few posts (which I see you have already) I think they backup my “happy horseshit”

Why any young person would choose horse racing today is beyond me. They can bet on a ton of other stuff with much less work (remember most of those bets have only 2 choices) and much less effort to hear a so called informed opine about what to bet (ESPN-FOX-CBS shows) and where to bet.

They can get an injury report in 1 minute online. They can get a ton of “accurate” stats as opposed to racing which can barely provide accurate timing at most tracks.

The occasional “the refs are crooked” or “The umps are blind” is baby shit compared to reading about cheating in horse racing.

Nope….why horse racing? Nope not gonna do it…..

Let's not forget that all the statistics we need to form an informed sports betting opinion are available on the internet for FREE...which is a policy that the horse racing industry seems to be allergic to.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Let's not forget that all the statistics we need to form an informed sports betting opinion are available on the internet for FREE...which is a policy that the horse racing industry seems to be allergic to.

You’re right !

When all you’re considering and talking about is the simulcasting throughout the No. American racing industry. But there’s a horse-racing game in the far east that takes specific care of all the issues that you’ve mentioned, and then some. Despite the high take out they’re still putting up handle numbers that make State side wagering look paltry by comparison, especially when you compare the number of races and racetracks involved.
Obviously their overall product is well received by their patrons and for many substantial reasons.
.
.

[Poindexter]

What are all these statistics you need for free? Doesn’t TwinSpires offer free ultimate past performances for the cost of making a bet? Doesn’t drf offer the same for free drf. What are you looking for? Free bias and clocker reports.

No matter what your complaint about racing is, it all circles back to one issue. If they don’t fix the pricing issue, they can give everyone free sheets, thorograph, clocker reports, tip sheets. Bias reports, trip notes, interviews with jockeys and trainers ….,.and the game still fails miserably. Fix the pricing and then worry about improving everything else. If you don’t fix the pricing everything else is FUTILE. That is the point that seems to be continually missed.
.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

What are all these statistics you need for free? Doesn’t TwinSpires offer free ultimate past performances for the cost of making a bet? Doesn’t drf offer the same for free drf. What are you looking for? Free bias and clocker reports.

No matter what your complaint about racing is, it all circles back to one issue. If they don’t fix the pricing issue, they can give everyone free sheets, thorograph, clocker reports, tip sheets. Bias reports, trip notes, interviews with jockeys and trainers ….,.and the game still fails miserably. Fix the pricing and then worry about improving everything else. If you don’t fix the pricing everything else is FUTILE. That is the point that seems to be continually missed.
.

How can you say that the pricing is being "continually missed", when the game's exorbitant takeout is always the number one complaint whenever the serious horseplayers congregate and debate the issues concerning this game? OF COURSE the pricing is the first thing that needs to be addressed...but are we supposed to continually talk about the very problem that the industry will never get around to solving? Or are you of the opinion that our continuous bitching about the pricing of this game will have some sort of positive effect going forward?

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Vic, I don’t know anybody under 50 who’s a horseplayer. Read the next few posts (which I see you have already) I think they backup my “happy horseshit”

Why any young person would choose horse racing today is beyond me. They can bet on a ton of other stuff with much less work (remember most of those bets have only 2 choices) and much less effort to hear a so called informed opine about what to bet (ESPN-FOX-CBS shows) and where to bet.

They can get an injury report in 1 minute online. They can get a ton of “accurate” stats as opposed to racing which can barely provide accurate timing at most tracks.

The occasional “the refs are crooked” or “The umps are blind” is baby shit compared to reading about cheating in horse racing.

Nope….why horse racing? Nope not gonna do it…..

I played in my 9th or 10th consecutive BCBC this year.

2 entries at $10,000 each.

584 entries.

We bet 7% of the on track handle.

I'd guestimate that 80% of the players were 50 or less.

What you don't know is a lot.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

This argument was valid in the pre-simulcast days, but now that we have a hundred races a day at our betting disposal we can't say that "boredom" is the reason why the younger people are staying away from our favorite game.

Many of the youngsters come first as a social event.

The live racing is in front of them. A blast to try to pick a winner with your friends.

Some will fall in love with the sport. Most not. But's the way it works with anything new.

The chances of those people betting simulcasting that day are very small. If they do then we have a new lifetime customer.

If not, we try to keep them occupied with music, instructional videos, man in the crowd interviews, GIVEAWAYS is a big one. Marketing 101.

I know it's VERY tough with harrowing, Jocks changing et al to run the races faster. If we could I think we'd really be onto something.

The figures are going up on racings biggest days. Derby, Breeders' Cup et al.

It's damn sure got to be the next generation of younger fans because guys like you and me Thask are dying!

This sport can still thrive and it will NEVER die.

IMO contraction is an absolute must and I think it's coming in the next 20 years. Maybe less.

[Onesome]

How much does one have to bet to make the same 5 bucks a bottle of beer profit that Randwick probably made on serving this crowd for the Everest last year (think Australia's Pegasus World Cup), I'm sure Gulfstream would kill for a crowd like this on Saturday/

YouTube

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

How can you say that the pricing is being "continually missed", when the game's exorbitant takeout is always the number one complaint whenever the serious horseplayers congregate and debate the issues concerning this game? OF COURSE the pricing is the first thing that needs to be addressed...but are we supposed to continually talk about the very problem that the industry will never get around to solving? Or are you of the opinion that our continuous bitching about the pricing of this game will have some sort of positive effect going forward?

First of all I am not "bitching". I am educating the uneducated and I am not referring to you. Here is an example of what I am talking about.

https://www.americasbestracing.net/g...usses-wagering


When I say continually missed, I mean too many think that this game can be fixed without correcting the pricing. That is an impossibility and that attitude will just lead to pissing away more money on things that cannot possibly work.
If they remain oblivious of this death spiral they are on, they will kill this entire industry. So as this death spiral continues, I will keep on chiming with my analysis. Hope that is okay with you. If not, I believe there is an ignore feature.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

First of all I am not "bitching". I am educating the uneducated and I am not referring to you. Here is an example of what I am talking about.

https://www.americasbestracing.net/g...usses-wagering


When I say continually missed, I mean too many think that this game can be fixed without correcting the pricing. That is an impossibility and that attitude will just lead to pissing away more money on things that cannot possibly work.
If they remain oblivious of this death spiral they are on, they will kill this entire industry. So as this death spiral continues, I will keep on chiming with my analysis. Hope that is okay with you. If not, I believe there is an ignore feature.

You can keep on chiming with whatever analysis you want, and so will I. I have no problem at all with your comments, and I wouldn't ever think of putting you on "ignore". I was just surprised when you said that the pricing of this game is being "continually missed", when that's always been the number one complaint whenever we talk about the problems facing this game.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Many of the youngsters come first as a social event.

The live racing is in front of them. A blast to try to pick a winner with your friends.

Some will fall in love with the sport. Most not. But's the way it works with anything new.

The chances of those people betting simulcasting that day are very small. If they do then we have a new lifetime customer.

If not, we try to keep them occupied with music, instructional videos, man in the crowd interviews, GIVEAWAYS is a big one. Marketing 101.

I know it's VERY tough with harrowing, Jocks changing et al to run the races faster. If we could I think we'd really be onto something.

The figures are going up on racings biggest days. Derby, Breeders' Cup et al.

It's damn sure got to be the next generation of younger fans because guys like you and me Thask are dying!

This sport can still thrive and it will NEVER die.

IMO contraction is an absolute must and I think it's coming in the next 20 years. Maybe less.

You honestly think this sport will not die if they don't correct the pricing? You think anyone in their right mind is going to join a group of non rebated bettors that lose about 27% on the dollar in most exotics and come to the conclusion they have a future betting this game. Racings biggest days are 5 days a year. That is your source of hope? People will always show up to big events. That is not going to carry the industry as they continue feeding the whales at the expense of the recreational bettor.

This game has two major appeals. The perception that you can beat it or the perception that you will one day have a score. Unfortunately the first perception is basically gone in most. They just lose too much, too consistently and they eventually realize that their perception is delusion. The only perception that keeps many of the remaining playing is the perception that they will have a score. But even reality set in on them eventually. If they have the courage to track their losses at their adw, they may realize that they are so far behind the big score may not even put them in the profitable zone, unless it is a life changing score. They may or may not stay in the game. So eventually you are left with those that have disposable income (if you are worth 10 million and retired, losing $100,000 a year on horses isn't going to kill you), or those that bet very small because they enjoy the game (which is why you see tracks with an on track handle of about $50 a head) or those that are just plain degenerate or of course those that can hold their own despite the enormous takeout. Not exactly a way to build a thriving business imo.

[TrifectaBox]

Of course its all about the pricing.


On a 10 million handle day, the public bleeds out at least 2 million, and probably more, with the CAW action included.



That's regardless of ticket construction, handicapping acumen, and quality of tea leaves.



That's a lot of money to pay to see horses run around.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Let's not forget that all the statistics we need to form an informed sports betting opinion are available on the internet for FREE...which is a policy that the horse racing industry seems to be allergic to.

Yep….espn builds injury reports 48 hours out from games….and you can get it free via email subscriptions